Anyone planning on watching the childcare programme 2morrow nght?

[woodpops]

There's a programme on TV tomorrow night about some horror private nurseries. Is anyone planning on watching it. My mum said it might be best not to watch it as both my ds and dd go to private nursery. Do you reckon it'll put stupid ideas in my head about the care that my kids recieve there. Not that it should cause the nursery is great and ds and dd are extreamly happy there.

i do not agree at all. i do not expect a nursery nurse to shout at children. nor do i expect children to be abused. calling a child names, shouting at them, pulling them by the arm....

one little boy was pulled from the table for saying neenaw, he wasn't disrupting as they hadn't even started the activity.

of course nursery nurses are human and make mistakes, a mistake would be to shout once or twice or to snap out of the blue, not every minute.

Do you think you would be able to tell if the staff are behaving appropriately towards your child. My 2 year old dd has been attending Day Nursery for 3 days per week since she was 6 months. She is a well adjusted, confident loving child - presumably this means that she isn't having a negative experience at Nursery???

I hope so hmc. I'm putting my ds into nursery in September at 5 months and stupidly watched the programme last night. I've now got lots more questions to ask the nursery (is everyone first aid trained? How many of the staff are qualified etc) but I still feel sick at the thought of leaving him there now. It seems a long day for a 5 month old too - 8.30am - 6ish. I wonder what they will do with him when he grizzles because he needs his daytime nap but can't settle etc. The programme last night left me in tears and with a sleepless night because I don't want to leave him

vict17 - you poor thing, ending up feeling like that.

The programme was SO imbalanced it was bound to frighten a lot of parents.

My ds1 had his last day at his nursery today (he started going there part time when I was basically unable to walk during my second pregnancy). He loved it SO MUCH, we scraped the money together to let him carry on going, even after I became fit again.

He's only leaving because he has a place in September for the nursery where he will eventually attend school.

I cried today as he's leaving a place he loves.

I chose the nursery from 5 I visited. Interestingly, it had the least favourable OFSTED report of the five (it got heavily slated for lack of paperwork). But I just knew it was the best nursery. It was a riot of colour and incredibly child-focused - a marked contrast the the other nurseries which were rather austere. Plus, I didn't get a big "sales pitch" from the manager, but was able to chat to the nursery nurses instead.

I can't explain it, but my instincts told me there was "a lot of love" in that nursery, I walked in and felt really comfy and knew that ds1 would be happy there.

Try not to let what was a very skewed programme frighten you.

I have found reading this thread very interesting to the range of opinions regarding last nights programme and can agree/disagree with many. I too watched it although I knew deep down it was a foolish thing to do as it immediately brought on the 'guilt attack' of sending my ds to nursery (ds has been attending since 4 months old, 2 days a week). I was quite horrified to watch some of the things happening within the nursery environment and felt so sad for those poor little children. For the few that were qualified to actually work with the children, why do they stay in that field of work if they don't have the heart for it because they obviously didn't seem to be showing any inclination of wanting to be there or having any respect for their position, especially toward the children. There are good and bad nurseries in every area and from word of mouth you get the know (roughly) which ones you would and wouldn't send your child to (as well as gut instinct from initial visits) but after watching that programme (and knowing deep down that my ds is happy at his nursery and is extremely well looked after) it made me doubt my decision and that's why I know now why I should never have watched the programme!

Ds's nursery nurses were talking to me about the programme today. They were very upset about the way those poor children had been treated. But did point out, quite fairly, I think that nursery staff aren't taken very seriously. Low prestige and low pay don't encourage the best people into a job. All of the staff at ds's nursery are fine, I think, and many of them are fantastic. But it's a shame that society regards them as so unimportant. If childcare was properly recognised, as the important, responsible job that it is, children, parents and child care workers would be much better off. What can we do about it?
Sermon over...

I would hope the programme makers would think it a failure if it makes parents go on a guilt trip(and why is it always the mothers? As a SAHM I have said to DH that fathers should be forced to take an equal role, what a naive thing am I.)

Anyhow, why were those girls in that career, it was obvious they were so unsuited and hated children, the very tone of their voices made them sound like harridans. That whole jokey discussion about how one poor boy "sh*t" himself whenever this carer was in the same room was chilling, that is downright cruelty. That poor little boy, Zak and the biscuit incident, that was horrible to watch and led me to believe the carer had no idea on how to teach manners at all. And by the way, what is a "mong" I feel sure they shouldn't have said that infront of the children.

I agree with what Daisy said, the carers should be older women who have some life experience although there are some younger women who have the right mentality for the job. It needs some kind of process to weed out those who feel shouting and swearing is going to accomplish anything.

Having said that, at the entrance to my cul-de-sac is a large care home, kind of care-in-the-community idea. The residents are harmless, they just, how do I put this, don't have their full facilties upstair IFGMM. The carers are all on a good wage, yet every single one of them is huge. Now I am not throwing stones in my rather big greenhouse but the residents are all normal size and tbh I feel that if the carers are that size it must hamper their work, if they do any and judging by the time they spend at the ice-cream van I doubt that. Glad I got that off my ample chest, I digress but it is of the same theme. Why people chose jobs they are not suitable for.

It's not naive to think fathers should take on an equal role. My DH does - we both reduced our hours to look after dd. Why don't more men do that?

To be fair to fathers most employers would not give reduced hours and if you take on a part time job it is invariably worse pay per hour than a full time one.

Haven't read most of this thread too long so if I repeat or seem way off forgive me. I watched the programme and from a professional point of view, the treatment of some of those children was inexcusable. I was more interested in what didn't happen or wasn't said. Lizz Brown visited another nursery and found nothing wrong, what was its name? It was never mentioned. Ofsted do give a lot of warning and nurseries do 'prepare', but inspectors aren't stupid they can see through the majority of fronts and 'good practices' that dissapear when they have gone. Ofsted were not give the opportunity to be interviewed, they said they declined an interview on a specific case but what about a general interview which covered all the nurseries. I think it focused too much on the bad nurseries the parents reactions and not on how to choose a good one. Too much was missed out.

edam, I agree with what you're saying - I spent all day yesterday thinking that I would like to tell ds' nursery just how great we think they are. I thought it might come out a bit twee, though. Maybe we should start a campaign to all send a card to our nurseries just to say thank you and we think they do a wonderful job!

I agree that nursery staff are underpaid (but where is the money coming to pay them because parents can't afford more than the incredible £18K a year one couple were paying for theirtwo kids in nursery?) and that in the final nursery, where the hygeine standards were poor, I felt that the management was positively wicked in the way it treated its clearly exhausted and demotivated employees by cutting breaks that IMO are essential for their mental health if nothing else. And I think the programme made the point quite clearly that the rise of big chain nurseries that saw both staff and childen as nothing more than figures on a balance sheet were very bad news indeed.
BUT...on the question of the nurseries where staff were actively cruel to children, I think if this programme exposed a circus where the animals were beaten and frightened and kept in dirty conditions, or a programme which exposed catteries where cats were kicked, hit and shouted at and kept in the cold, would we all be saying, "Oh, it's just sensationalism' and 'Well, animal keepers are only human' and 'they are just trying to make us feel guilty for taking our kids to the circus/going on holiday without our cats"? I truly do not think so. We don't like to think that children are being abused at nursery, certainly. It is a horrible, chilling thought. But is the answer really that we should simply pretend it doesn't happen and suppress any evidence that it does? This wasn't a programme about how lovely nurseries are (we see that every day on Balamory and Teletubbies etc etc etc!) but an expose about what some REAL kids without voices of their own or any way to express their suffering are enduring day in and day out at the hands of people who appear to hate them. I, personally, think it is better to know or to at least consider the possibility that it can and does happen.

Paula you can be an effective carer at any weight, makes me very sad to see people feel like that still I have got comments at work because of my weight in the past and why I am doing the job, very hurtful

I found the whole program very sad, but felt that a lot of the positive stuff was glossed over.

I think it would be a dreadful thing if someone was turned down for a job because they were considered to be "huge". How can that affect their job as a carer? Should overweight people not have children?
IF someone is physically unable to literally do the job then that is different but to say they shouldnt do a job because of being overweight and spending time at icecream van isnt very nice or have I misunderstood your posting?

herc and Jenni, like I said in my post I am a bit of a heifer myself. Two and a half years later I am still loosing the weight gained during (and if I am honest before and after)my pregnancy with ds twins. And I mean I gained a LOT (5 1/2 stone!) at that weight my movements were restricted and my digression on the post was really because some of the carers are not overweight they are obese. I just wonder how they would cope in a medical emergency, knowing how hard bending over and running about was for me and they are bigger than me, I wish I could show you what I mean!. Believe me I know the snidey little taunts and jibes and don't see anything wrong with overweight carers or parents as cuddly is better than boney. And if it was me in that position I would expect them to buy for all the residents not just themselves. Does that clear it up at all?

Back to the subject, wouldn't the parents of the nursery they found to be good have felt so relieved to know that? Was there a reason they couldn't name it?

i dont think the age was anything to do with it, i think it was mindset for instance the lady who was shouting NO you know what the NO is was older than 35 as was quite a few of the others. In fact in one nursery it was obvious the trainees were acting in the way the nursery nurse acted. I was more angry with the owner that seemed to have a split personality when it came to talking to parents.
I feel sorry for the staff that were so run down and tired and had their break cut. That is an accident waiting to happen, I know how i am when tired with 2 kids much less 20+

BTW really trying hard not to get on my soapbox about that HUGE comment, it doesn't suprise me that someone would think like that, I have heard worse in my time. What has it got to do with anything, they're obviously able to do the job or they wouldn't be hired or kept on. It really has got me quite cross (trying to be ever so polite when i really dont want to be) actually and am stopping now before...

I think there were at least a couple of reasons why the 'good' nursery wasn't featured on the programme. One is because the programme exposed bad practice so it would have been irrelevant, although I take the point about summarising good practice. The other is the legal issue - you have to have consent from parents to be able to broadcast images of children. The only clear faces were those of children whose parents had consented to be interviewed because they were asking for an improvement of standards. The other faces were blurred out - and if there wasn't a problem, not all parents would want their children to be on view to any weirdo watching the programme.

I'm back at mieows pc as i feel i have to comment on this programme. The little boy, Zak, who was screamed at for scratching and they were trying to make him say ta for 4 mins made me cry. I have 2 daughters and they both have moderate to severe ezcema. When dd1 started nursery they wouldnt let her cream into the nursery as they arent allowed to apply it (???). Its a state nursery, and dd2 has her name down for the private section to start in janurary. After seeing how the carers at teh nursery treated zak, i have been questioning my decision to put dd2 into private nursery. I admit i get hacked off when my dd's scatch (especially in the middle of the night for 7 nights a week and all i want is sleep) but i'd expect my dd's to be cared for and for the carers to try and minimise the distress caused without yelling at them. All Zak needed was a dab of cream or a cool cloth to be applied to his neck to stop the itch. I was yelling at the TV as i could see how distressed he was getting. As you can see, ezcema and its treatment is imprtant to me, as proper care minimises the discomfort my kids (and others) feel. If i was paying for ym child to be cared for, i'd expectnothing less than the best.

A lot of posts have excused the nursery staff featured in the programme because they are "underpaid". Doesn't the minimum wage apply to nursery staff as it does to others? If you really find children so infuriating that you have to scream & shout at them, go & work somewhere else!

I know that as an inexperienced mum I probably did more shouting than was strictly necessary but these girls have chosen to go into the child care profession and are being paid for it. When I came to the conclusion that my frustration with my children wasn't doing them any good, DH & I negotiated our working lives so that we shared the childcare. Yes it can be done daisy, but it involves working shifts (& means that you are forever poor & in a rotten job, but that is another thread).

It would have been helpful to have seen some examples of good practice in a nursery. I found myself wondering if there was such a thing. Some of my children went on a part time basis to various nurseries but they were older than the children featured in the programme. They never said anything about what went on.

good for you Tallulah - we don't quite cover the whole week between us but we too do shifts. The right to request flexible working is open to both parents.

There were a few more articles about this over the weekend about how training standards should be higher, the need for state subsidies, and a review of government strategy coming up in the autumn. One anonymous nursery manager quoted an average salary of £11,000 for 40 hours per week where she worked, which was generous by industry standards.

Tallulah, I don't think being under-paid is an excuse for the nursery staff to behave like they did, but it explains why it's difficult to attract good quality people into this job and make experienced staff stay on.

What suprised me the most about the programme was that the parents claimed not to notice that something was wrong. Even if a child cannot speak, surely you would be able to tell by their behaviour that something was wrong? Disturbed sleep patterns, crying when going to nursery etc? I have difficulties getting my little one home when I come to collect him, so I am pretty sure he is content.

I don't think the assumption that if you are paid minimum wage you are not a good quality person. I hear it a lot about a few jobs. Some people work minimum wage jobs because thats what they want to.

That should be I don't think the assumption is fair. Ooops. Must preview.

Fairymum, my DD used to scream when the nursery bus came to collect her & had to be dragged onto it (one day per week). When she came home she'd be grinning from ear to ear, so I was never sure what the screaming was about. She also had to be dragged into primary school kicking & screaming

I have been left feeling uneasy about the ethics of the journalist here. The reporter was being paid as an agency worker, or was on placement, with the understanding that she would be there working, taking care of children. So how come she watched for over half an hour while little Kaytlin desparately followed an adult for a cuddle? I can understand journalists covering news stories staying out of the action, but as an undercover journalist she had been taken on to do a job - she could have reached for Kaytlin and cuddled her.