Anyone planning on watching the childcare programme 2morrow nght?

[woodpops]

There's a programme on TV tomorrow night about some horror private nurseries. Is anyone planning on watching it. My mum said it might be best not to watch it as both my ds and dd go to private nursery. Do you reckon it'll put stupid ideas in my head about the care that my kids recieve there. Not that it should cause the nursery is great and ds and dd are extreamly happy there.

Champs, they didn't show the good nursery because a. it would have used up time that was more usefully spent exposing the bad ones and showing what was wrong and b. even if it was shown as 'good', to appear in the context of that programme could have damaged its reputation and the company may have taken legal action. And c. the BBC may not have found any problems while they were there, but cannot guarantee that it is always 100 per cent perfect so can't endorse it in any way, which featuring it as the one 'good' nursery could have done.
Absolutely terrifying. My ds is in full-time nursery and I know it is a good nursery, not only have good relationship with staff and see how ds relates to them but also turn up at odd times sometimes... but even so, seeing this programme made me want to take him out NOW. Quite tearful. Those poor children. How DARE anyone treat a little child like that? And can't believe the nursery that tried to defend its appalling care. I hope the parents at the nursery hear about the programme and take their kids away.

I think that all nurseries should have cctv cameras and the ofsed officers should randomly watch the tapes. That would make them think twice.

Watched it - found it disconcerting....however, even if you don't send them to nursery, when they are 4 years old and at school who is to say that some primary school teacher isn't going to undermine your child's confidence by shouting or being demeaning towards them? There is sadly a limit to how much you can protect your child against this 'cruel' world. Was very disgusted however by the 'carer' who called a child 'stupid' and an imbecile.

Do agree with the premise that the programme was pushing - that Ofsted inspections should occur without warning so that Nursery's don't get time to add a false veneer to their activities.

Also, and I am sure that many of you won't agree, I think there is a case for CCTV in Day Nurseries as a matter of course.

I just hope I am wrong but am getting an uncomfortable feeling about some of the follow ups (on other threads)... is it me and my suspicious/cynical mind?

I had the reverse problem - the nursery told me that DD2 did not want to go home with the nanny and screamed, cried and clung onto her teacher. They had asked nanny to tell me that DD2 was not her usual sunny self, but she didn't. Her teacher grabbed me one day when I had the day off work and was collecting her and told me there seemed to be a problem with the nanny. I've since sacked her, but I'll never know what went on...and in my own home too . DD1 has said several times since the nanny left that she never wants to see her again - ever - but will not be drawn on why. She just gets very upset.

I think OFSTED is A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME & MONEY at the moment.

They go in to nurseries (and schools) for a week every few years. The nurseries and schools know when they are coming. This does not give an accurate picture of how that nursery or school operates - how on earth can it?

Spot checks are the only way forward IMO. Less focus on how many pieces of paper the nursery or school has managed to fill in so OFSTED inspectors can tick boxes, and more emphasis on whether the environment and the people in it are helping children to be safe, happy and flourish.

The programme was gut wrenching and very depressing; it was a great shame that there was nothing good to compare the awful nurseries to, the programme was very unbalanced.

The Government needs to get it's finger out, get OFSTED by the scruff of it's neck and sort out it's abysmal method of monitoring this country's nurseries and schools.

Unicorn,

Its probably because it is late and my brain isn't working, but I've read your post (3 or 4 comments below) twice now and I'm not sure what you mean. Please explain because I hate being stumped!

hmc there is a thread re nurseries that looks distinctly like an advert to me... but I could be very very wrong.
(and I do apologise)

it is in going back to work/childcare thread..
and just feels wrong to me.

edam, you are right. hmc i once heard a teachers assistant being a way to ds, i was hidden by the door, her face was a picture when she realised i was there, i looked at her and made it clear i had heard. she looked so scared!! that was enough for me to know she wouldn't do that again.

One way to find a good nursery is to look for one where the OWNER runs the nursry- she doesn't employ a manager. The excellent, warm caring nursery the boys have been to (ds2 is there now) is managed by the owner. DS1 was there for 2 and a half years and ds2 has been there 6 months. In that time one staff member retired (but still comes in to do cover sometimes), and one staff member left because her son started school (ds1's school!). One new full time member of staff has been employed. She's also sent students home from work experience if she thought they were crap.

OFSTED inspections are useless. ours told the owener she needed to leave out jugs of water for the 2 year olds to help themselves. When she refused she was told she would be passed if she put up a written notice saying "children please ask if you want a drink".

Personally I would never leave my kids with someone who had never had children. They haven't the experience and until you have a child you don't fully appreciate how precious they are. What does an 18 year old with no children know about taking care of children?

This program really upset me. But that is exactly what is was meant to do. The nurseries shown where horrific and I was crying because of the obvious distress to teh children & parents. It is worth remembering however that any nursery worth its salt would not have let that journalist anywhere near them therefore we only saw the dodgy ones. I am wobbly enough about sending dd to nursery next month and this did not help. It was sensationalist journalism. THe final story was incredibly sad and frightening but tbh was an extreme case. This is another big daily mail stick to beat working mums with.

I don't think that's very fair pesme. The programme didn't seem to have the agenda of beating working mums - on the contrary, it seemed to me to be beating OFSTED. And one nursery had perfectly good practices, which did accept the journalist as a carer.

I didn't get the impression that the programme was saying that parents shouldn't be sending their kids to nurseries, I felt it was saying that nurseries should be properly run and inspected so that parents could send their kids to nurseries with complete confidence. And I don't see what's wrong with that. There are crap nurseries out there (obviously) and the OFSTED inspection procedure is nowhere near adequate. The programme highlighted that, and if that leads to changes in the inspection procedures and therefore better nurseries, then surely that is a good thing for working women and their children.

pesme, I didn't watch the program but one of the nurseries investigated is where I live and before the program was produced, it had a reputation for being one of the 'not so nice' ones around here (mind you, didn't stop people sending their kids there). My dd went to nursery - the same chain that the little one who had the milk allergy went to - she was milk allergic at the time and fed exactly the same breakfast cereal (containing milk) as the little boy. I made a fuss (not big enough of a fuss obviously) - this was over a year before that little boy died so they never even bothered learning from their mistakes (all it takes is a bit of intelligent label reading).

As far as I'm concerned, I'm more than happy for them to expose people like this. Just as I'm happy to see bad practices in care homes exposed. You may call it sensationalist journalism (and of course they made it because they knew working parents would watch) but if it stops one child getting abused at nursery, then great. I just wish Ofsted could do these sort of drop-in, undercover visits and then we could all feel a bit better about the sort of childcare nurseries provide.

Hi, I take your points. BUT. If it had been a serious program concentrating on the ofsted process and discussing alternatives i.e. giving control of inspections to local authorities and creating accountability (not that that is a solution just an example). I might have taken it more seriously. Footage of distressed children and meanie childcare workers is 'good tv'. we all watched and were upset by it but I am none the wiser, we all know there are crappy nurseries and good ones. Lingering shots of children cying and footage of their parents crying is car crash tv. Everyone will make a fuss about this, David Blunkett will invariable discuss bringing back hanging for childcare workers and then next week there will be the next big story.

One thing they did say in the programme was that Ofstead are considering a 'next to no notice' system of inspection (whatever that means), rather than as much notice as they give now (when the nurseries could employ agency workers to bump up the staff numbers and buy their yearly bar of soap). They're also investigating the incidents further. So if the programme achieved any change, it was worthwhile. I watched it and literally had nightmares.

I mean Ofsted

Oh foxinsocks if only they'd listened to you?

I didn't watch but recently a nursery in Pype Hayes Birmingham has been closed down and owners arrested on suspicion of neglect

The estate that it's by was on my list with the H/A when i was waiting to move. If i had moved ther my kids would have been there.
Doesn't bare thinking bout.

(changed username for this, I am a regular poster)

I watched that show last night, and whilst I was deeply saddened by the treatment of some children, overall the program left me with a nasty taste in my mouth.

Some of the behaviour shown by the nursery nurses was completely out of order. The girl calling the boy minger was wrong, pure and simple, the man sleeping on the job was wrong. BUT if I am honest a lot of their behavior would not be seen as out of the ordinary in a home.

I have shouted at my own child for making silly noises and disrupting things my tone of voice was more appropriate but my actions were similar.

I have worked in nursery schools, and obviously I never ever behaved like that, but I do see where they were coming from. Managment is frequently unavailable and distant. Your job is seen as the lowest of the low, and your position as the carer of a child is just disreguarded by parents. But a program about the abuse of nursery nurses isn't exciting is it?

The way the books tell you to look after children are wonderful, but the reality of being 20 and in a room with 20 screaming toddlers is very different. I am extremely child patient, but I sometimes had to walk out the room to stop myself from taking it out on anyone else.

My own child attends a private day nursery. The girls there are lovely, very young, and most of them are child-less and they are wonderful with my child. They play, talk and laugh with them, and they also help me a lot. But I have walked in some days and seen them stressed, when someone has been off sick and they are not sure who to call in to replace her.

Maybe I am a heartless bitch, but for me the nursery program showed that nursery nurses are human. Not idilic saints who never get upset or stressed or angry. They were young girls who would have benefitted from some supervision, but I truely believe that their heart was in the right place. When they were doing the ta for the biscuit thing with the boy I was sad that they were dealing with it all wrong, But how hasn't had a long 'say please' conversation with their toddler?

Meadowfield, I agree with a lot of what you say. What struck me about the girls is that they were untrained and just needed to be taught a few positive parenting techniques - and a rather more acceptable vocabulary (I'd be horrified if my children were in an environment where the words "mong" and "minger" were used). But a lot of their behaviour was born of ignorance, rather than pure unbridled evil.

But the problem is that the sales pitch we get for nurseries is that they are better than home; I know a SAHM who sent her 12 week old baby to nursery "because it's good for him". Also other friends who work and would never consider any other option than a nursery "because they're so good for children". When you consider the amount of real anguish women go through to try and ensure that the childcare they select is the best they can for their children, and that many of them are paying up to 90% of their wages for the privilege and justify it on the basis that it?s doing their babies so much good, it?s not surprising that they feel shocked and betrayed by the revelation that an institution which has been recommended by Ofsted should be so different from the sales pitch. It may not be realistic to expect perfection, but that is what we?re sold.

But as someone who used a day nursery from the time DD was 6 months i do find some parents' attitudes hard to square. I have heard parents run down "young mums" who they know nothing about but expect 19 year olds in day nurseries to be like Mary Poppins. It just doesn't add up.

That is how I feel marialuisa I see the nursery nurses as human and humans make mistakes. I would hate my child to be screamed at or made to feel stupid, but I accept that at nursery they will be shouted at, and sometimes the girls will get it wrong.

I also do not think you need children to look after children. I think you need an understanding and experience of children certainly.

Meadowfield, staff at my nursery would never shout at dd - they are disciplined, yes, but in a calm, loving and controlled manner. I would never accept my dd being shouted at at nursery.

Also, not all nurseries are staffed by young girls - my nursery has older qualified teachers (who all happen to be parents themselves) in charge with a few younger staff below them. And my daughter's favourite teacher is a man (also a parent).

I agree that nursery staff are only human - but think if you choose the right nursery they will be sufficiently qualified and experienced to not resort to shouting/rough treatment.