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Did you know it's best to bathe babies in water alone?

125 replies

mears · 08/07/2002 23:24

As a midwife I get hacked off seeing the advert that says 8/10 midwives use Johnsons baby products ( unfortunately a survey by the Royal College of Midwives has found out that is true!).

Anyway - I get annoyed at colleagues and mums giving baby's baths full of bubbles as it has been shown that the use of these products disrupts the balance of the skin, increasing the incidence of eczema and skin rashes etc.

The advice is that babies should be bathed in water only for at least the first two weeks ( including hair) to allow the skin to continue formation of the protective mantle post delivery.

In 'Practical Parenting' magazine this month mums are advised to take baby bath and shampoo into hospital with them as part of essential items. Not only are they an unnecessary expense they are potentially damaging to tender skins.

How many mums thought these products were essential?

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 02/11/2002 13:37

nobubbles, this is interesting, just looked at your site too. When my ds was born 5 years ago (at home) I really, really didn't want him bathed or his hair washed for a while. I don't know why, I just hated the idea of it, sort of felt that he didn't need the shock of it after being cosy in the womb. So he wasn't bathed until day 2, and then only in warm water. But my mum really wanted him to smell of new baby (i.e Johnson & Johnson products) so I did give in and let her use baby shampoo eventually. It seems that my weird feeling about not wanting to inflict chemicals on him was right! Everyone seems to think that new baby smell is Johnson & Johnson, which just goes to show what an impact they and other product manufacturers have had. V. interesting. Good for you.

Tissy · 02/11/2002 15:09

Mears, nobubbles, fantastic work, both of you! I suspect that you both work at the hospital where I had dd, 9 months ago, and I hope you're succeeding in your aim to clear the mat. unit of baby bubbles. Dd was washed by the midwife in recovery within minutes of us getting there after my section, when I was woozy, and in no fit state to argue. Dh definitely remembers a large squirt of baby bath going into the very small bowl she was washed in. I also remember the midwife telling me, when I did the "supervised " bath on the ward that I should put a bit more baby bath in, as she thought I hadn't used enough! Dd had eczema for ages, and it cleared up soon after we started to use just water.

As for the breastfeeding pocket book- good luck with it. In the first instance could you get the hospital audiovisual dept to produce it, perhaps with some sponsorship from the WRVS or hospital volunteers? Perhaps the peadiatric endowment fund would help? I thought the few sheets of paper I got from the hospital about breastfeeding/ expressing/ mastitis disorganised at best, and a single book with all the information needed would be much better. After a trial period, with a bit of "market research", it may be easier to find a publisher. I can honestly say that in spite of their best intentions, I had more help with breastfeeding from mears via mumsnet than from any other source ( ward midwives, comm. midwife, HV, NCT breastfeeding counsellor, friends, relatives.

SueDonim · 02/11/2002 17:58

A really interesting site, thank you - btw, there are 87 hits now.

My oldest is 27 and when he was born bath liquid for babies was new on the market. I remember the MW telling me it was useless, I needed to soap him thoroughly all over to get him clean!! Can't say he looked very dirty to me, though......

Although I used bubbles with all my children luckily none of them has ever had much of a problem skin. They went down the asthma route (all four of them!) instead. But in light of this research, if I had another baby I would just use plain water. In fact, my 6 yr old now bathes in plain water as we can't buy nice bubbles out here and if she's not grubby I don't bother with soap, either. I reckon any ingrained filth will come off when she goes swimming, which is most days.

Eulalia · 02/11/2002 20:29

Thanks again mears and nobubbles.

nobubbles - very interesting article. Your research should be more known about.

A query about your comments regarding introducing solid food. You state no gluten until 9 months and dairy 9-12 months. I started dd on solids at 6 months. So far she's just had fruit & veg, baby rice and rice cakes. however she's had some bread to suck on. Should I not give her this? The rice cakes are so expensive. Is it possible to make anything like this oneself? I've not given her dairy yet and wasn't planning to for a few months yet. I guess fish and meat are OK?

ds has slight dermititis on his legs and I get it on my hands so there is a family trait for minor skin problems.

nobubbles · 02/11/2002 22:55

For Eulalia: Thankyou for your comments, glad you found the article interesting. Sounds as though you are doing all the right things with your dd. However, I would stick to gluten-free breadsticks or gluten-free rusks, which are widely available. Its only for a few more months and leave the dairy products till a year also. As there is a history of skin problems, it is always better to be more cautious. Fish and chicken, mixed with veg is also fine. Hope that this helps.

mears · 02/11/2002 23:06

Hi nobubbles- welcome to mumsnet - beware this site can get very addictive
Thanks Tissy for your kind words - glad to be of assistance. Some of the midwives in our unit get really annoyed with me because I lecture them whenever possible about not using bubblebath or wipes on the babies in the recovery area. I can smell it from 50 paces I am always removing the bottles but the Bounty rep keeps bringing them.
Hopefully nobubbles will put paid to that!

OP posts:
maryz · 02/11/2002 23:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eulalia · 03/11/2002 10:26

nobubbles - thanks again. I only found the rice cakes in Boots. There is very little in our local Tesco, nothing in Sommerfield - I live in the country but would go into the city if I knew where to go. A health food shop? I agree the no gluten is only going to be for another 2.5 months so I am willing to invest a bit of money for her (particularly as she cost nothing for the first 6 months!)

Is basmati rice OK and pudding rice, and pulses like lentils etc? You said no eggs too - is it OK to use eggs in cooking?

Also for my ds (3) - he eats dairy but not a lot - should I cut down more? He still has dry red patches on his legs, fortunately it has never bothered him. I don't know how much calcium he should be having at this age.

nobubbles · 03/11/2002 11:11

Just checked in and have to say this is becoming addictive!!(I'll get you back Mears!). Thankyou to Maryz for your encouraging comments.Although I now use products on my children (who are 2 and 5) I think I will even cut down, because from the responses, it would appear that these potions are even more potent than I had thought! For Eulalia: I used a great book, which you can get at the library. I wore their copy out and had to buy my own! Its called; Cooking for Babies and Toddlers and is published by Hermes House. The Author is Sara Lewis. Its full of all the info you need and lots of recipes which are easy to follow and will suit the whole family too. Basmati rice is fine, as are pulses. Cooked egg yolk is ok but wait until 9-12 months for the whole egg. Hope this is of help. Boots sell their own brand of gluten-free rusks to chew on and Tesco do everything and you can go online to order things! As for your 3 yr old. You cant be too strict and some Dairy products are probably ok. Not too sure on exact calcium levels but yogurts are good for this.

Eulalia · 03/11/2002 13:44

Yes it is addictive nobubbles!! thanks for the cookery book info.

I did a search on the internet for gluten free cookery and there is plenty of stuff but it's general stuff rather than for babies. However I can adapt the recipes. I thought that oats contained gluten? If not would porridge made with water be alright? Sorry for all the questions!

nobubbles · 03/11/2002 16:12

Eulalia: Porridge made with water would be fine,as oats are gluten-free. You could also use Expressed Breast Milk, if you are still Breatfeeding. Mix in some fresh fruit puree to make it taste better. Freeze it in icecube trays and get out a few cubes at a time - easy!!
Can I just say to anyone who is interested, that it is not just bath products that can damage skin. Everything that comes into contact with your baby could also sensitize them. This will include the food they eat, the clothes they wear, the bedding against their skin and washing powders and conditioners that also contain many chemicals. Try to keep the level of natural substances 'up' and the level of additives, perfumes and colourings 'down'. Sounds like common sense, but its surprising how many people breastfeed to avoid allergies, then use biological soap powders to wash their clothes in!!

SueDonim · 03/11/2002 16:54

I'm interested that it's okay to give fish to babies, as my son had an allergy to fish (not just shellfish). Is fish allergy rare?

nobubbles · 03/11/2002 22:51

Fish allergy, especially shellfish, is not that rare, although less common than most. My book on feeding babies and toddlers ( see nobubbles comment dated 3rd Nov @11.11am) says to introduce mild tasting fish (eg plaice, cod, haddock and trout) at about 6 months of age. Hope that helps.

WideWebWitch · 03/11/2002 22:56

er nobubbles, I think you are, indeed, becoming addicted...bwhahahaha (evil laugh again, copied from enid via Ks) a warm welcome

elliott · 04/11/2002 09:59

Not sure how this thread mutated into a discussion about gluten free foods, but thought I'd add my suggestions!
Eulalia - in the 'gluten-free' stage, the things I found useful to add variety were:

  1. Porridge made with millet flakes - looks and tastes much like oat porridge. I made it with formula at first but water or cow's milk or EBM would work. I found much conflicting advice about whether oats had gluten in them or not - what I read that sounded most likely to be accurate was that oats have a gluten-like protein in them which can cause intolerance in the same way. I avoided them to 6 months anyway.
  2. Brown rice flakes - cook within about 60 seconds to a very mushy consistency, I addded them to veg/lentil purees.
  3. I used adult rice cakes with no added salt- cheaper than the boots baby ones.
  4. I gave red lentil puree before 6 months. It goes very smooth when cooked for a long time.

I bought all these things at a health food shop, along with goodies like dried fruit including unsulphered dried apricots. It would be well worth a trip if you can hunt one down - at this stage the bags of rice and millet flakes last ages - you'll probably find lots of other grains and other interesting things to inspire you as well.

HTH

Eulalia · 04/11/2002 13:20

Thanks again no bubbles and elliot. Some very useful tips.

yes nobubbles still breastfeeding - very much so. ds aged 3 1/4 still does occasionally and dd all the time!

honeybunny · 04/11/2002 14:26

Actually, oats do contain gluten according to one allergy book I've read. Its in a slightly different form and has a much lower % so is usually tolerated by gluten sensitive people, but not those with high intolerance. If you look at the side of most "porridge" food labels (hipp organic b'fast porridge for exmaple) it will say that it contais gluten.

Eulalia · 04/11/2002 21:07

TIMES ONLINE
November 01, 2002

Dairy dilemma
by SUZANNAH OLIVIER
Has milk's wholesome image gone sour? Evidence suggests that you don't need it if you have a balanced diet

MILK has always enjoyed a wholesome reputation. However, the ?I don?t do dairy? brigade could be on the right track. In truth, there are not many established indisputable facts about the benefits of dairy intake.
Fact 1: animal milk was not introduced into the human diet until 7,000-10,000 years ago, at the point when animal herding was developed.

Fact 2: 70 per cent of people worldwide are unable to drink milk, and don?t. This is because, post-weaning, the milk enzyme lactase diminishes, making people unable to digest milk fully. Those of African, Asian, Jewish and southern Mediterranean descent are most likely to lack this enzyme. So is milk good or bad for you?

WEIGHT REDUCTION A study of 32 people over 24 weeks, conducted by Professor Michael Zemel, of Purdue University, Indiana, concluded that those who consumed three or four servings of low-fat dairy while on a 500-calorie-per-day restricted diet lost up to 70 per cent more weight than those who followed the low-calorie diet, or the same diet but with calcium supplements. This supports animal studies which have found that a high calcium intake increases metabolism and suppresses fat storage, but suggests that there is an X-factor in dairy which might accelerate weight loss even more. Yet countries with low dairy intakes have the lowest obesity problems.

BONE HEALTH Three portions of dairy (milk, yoghurt and cheese) achieves the 700mg of calcium that we are recommended to consume each day for strong bones. This may be important for people before their mid-twenties, when bone is reaching peak density.

However, Stephen Walsh, the Vegan Society?s vice-chair, says that milk acts as a stimulus generally ? rather than just because of the calcium ? due to the effect of IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1) and he questions the advice to drink milk beyond the time of peak bone growth, as IGF-1 is linked with various cancers. The advantage of drinking milk in later years is not clear-cut. Calcium is not the only factor in bone health; magnesium found in grains and green leafy vegetables may also help. It?s possible that reducing calcium loss is more important than increasing calcium intake: a high consumption of salt, caffeine and phosphoric acid (from soft drinks) leads to calcium loss. Many non-Western cultures consume less calcium than we do and have lower levels of osteoporosis.

HEART DISEASE According to the Dairy Council, blood pressure and cholesterol levels are improved by dairy. They quote a study which recommends two or three portions daily of low-fat dairy products. But those results assumed the consumption of nearly ten portions of fruit and vegetables a day. One milk fatty acid, myristic acid, though not in fat-free dairy products, raises cholesterol.

BREAST CANCER Two Scandinavian studies offer evidence that milk intake reduces breast cancer risk. However, numerous previous studies have reached different conclusions. Even one of the positive studies says: ?The contradicting results may indicate that any association between milk and breast cancer is not strong.? Walsh, of the Vegan Society, believes it might be significant that the studies showing positive results were Nordic. Vitamin D, which helps calcium uptake by bones, and is implicated in lower breast cancer rates, is provided by sunlight on skin ? rarer in the north ? and by milk. Walsh says the safest bet is to get calcium and vitamin D from elsewhere.

THERE IS no strong evidence to say that you need to drink milk as long as you are eating a varied diet. If you eat dairy products, there seems to be little doubt that low-fat (skimmed, not semi-skimmed) is the only truly healthy option. Claims that dairy is a strong contender for preventing breast cancer and cardiovascular disease are, at best, premature.

Links

www.milk.co.uk
The Dairy Council

www.vegansociety.com
Offering (milk-free) food for thought

Lil · 05/11/2002 13:37

Just back to your original post mears. Hear, Hear! Interesting how many mums agree with you but then put the same crap on their own skin everyday..

Our skin was never 'designed' to cope with all these laboratory made chemicals. How does the beauty industry get away with it??

agaazaa · 09/11/2002 22:10

Update on DD now 6 1/2 weeks, usedno soap etc for 10 days, or so. Rash cleared up she seemes better. amazing what no bubbles etc can do.

She has cradle cap, apart from olive oil and ungunteum merk (spelling?) how do I clear it, or at least get rid of smell without soap. Daft question but which bit of her head is ok to massage with water?

Sorry if that appears totally clueless. Would appreciate some help.

Clarinet60 · 11/11/2002 11:49

Don't know the answer, but am I alone in loving that smell? Just smells like concentrated new baby to me.

nobubbles · 18/11/2002 22:50

some advice for agaazaa: when my dd and ds had cradlecap, I rubbed oil into their scalp, let it soak in, then combed out all the gunk with a baby comb. You can then massage the whole scalp in water, with the smallest amount of colour/perfume free baby bath, as a bath solution, not neat. This should do the trick, then go back to water alone. You do not need shampoo at all.My older dd and ds only got cradlecap as a result of overuse of products, whereas my 2 younger ds's, who are now 5 and 3 have had no such problems and have still not had their hair shampooed!Their scalps are completely clear and it is quite difficult to even get their hair wet because of the natural oils.As for the smell, your own baby smells devine, especially without artificial perfumes, so just sniff and enjoy! Hope this helps.

SueDonim · 19/11/2002 16:54

Nobubbles, you're having quite an effect on me. I dreamt the other night that I had a humdinging argument with a martinet of a health visitor who was using bubbles when showing new mums in hospital how to bath a baby. I was quite exhausted when I woke up!!

Bumblelion · 19/11/2002 16:58

I used Johnsons products with DD1, but never bothered with DD2 after reading that it was recommended they be washed in water. This now means that at age 5 he doesn't like bubbles of any decription in his bath.

I do use the new Johnsons Soft Wash in my shower (for my use only) as it makes my skin really soft and is cheaper than other shower wash products I was previously using.

Don't use it on my DD2 though.

Joe1 · 19/11/2002 19:41

Nobubbles, I agree with a baby smell is much nicer without the products smell, Im always giving my 7 week dd a sniff