The Monday Debate (TM): what has religion ever done for us?

[SenoraPostrophe]

OK, so those who saw last week's debate might spot a formula here, but bear with me...

There was a fascinating article in the guardian on Saturday about how many in the west take for granted the idea of moral and philosophical relativism (i.e. we believe that there is no such thing as Truth because we can never be 100% sure of anything. All truths, and even all rights and wrongs are relative.) The article argued that this effectively leaves us with a moral void that many are deeply uncomfortable with, and has resulted in the rise of religious fundamentalism in all its forms.

Now if you'd asked me 3 weeks ago what religion had ever done for us, I'd probably have said nothing, but this and a couple of other articles have really made me think. I personally don't like religion, but actually I like hardcore moral relativism even less - you know, those people who believe that nothing is True except their own Opinion. I'm quite happy believing in neither but I can see why people are attracted to the absolute certainties of religious fundamentalism.

so anyway - is religion really that bad? or, if you are religious, is it really that good?

I'm off to get a glass of wine while this thread dies a very swift death....

I know what made me post about religion. It was the desath of Kurt Vonnegut.

Has anyone read Cat's Cradle?

ah, you've been hanging out with the wrong sort of relativist - my sort are the right ones

Religion defined by what a person puts into. If a person is hateful and full of predujice they will use a religion to promilgate their own beliefs. But if a person is full of love then religion can be a focus for good works. Religion is a tool which create good or do harm depending on the one who wields it.

if a person is full of love then why do they need religion?

.

Thanks for posting this because I have to write an exam question on this ina months time in my human rights course. Some argue a committment to human rights and equality for all etc. is the modern religion for a secular age. Not a bad idea really. I think you should believe in something beyond your own self interest. Personally, I am religious. I don't go to be told what to do, but to get guidance on difficult issues of morality/justice etc. The religions do think about this stuff more than we do and so each sunday I hear things that make mea think and reflect on how I am acting each week, like a moral compass but that if you don't you go to hell stuff is gone. It is all about leading a good life and is that so bad. It gives comfort and is also anchors my kids and teaches them things that are important.

I see what GK Chesterton is getting at, but as a rationalist I don't necessarily think of new-age/crystal-waving/ indigo child/ fairy/ astrology bollocks as being any better or any worse - just more examples of the same kind of thing.

OK.

Now I'm going to take bets on how long it will take DominiConnor to post on this thread.

My bet is tomorrow morning when he gets in to work and his little religion radar is beeping on his pc. I'll say 9am?

religeon is a clique.

i'm in one.

non religeos people try to form their own cliques - "i'm a humanist..agnostic" which they may be but they then turn their belief into a community of wht can only be described as - a religeon of non religeon.

CUSTY! I SAW A BUTTERFLY TAKE A PISS ON HOLIDAY!!!!!!!!

It is a clique of sorts, yes. Some people don't want to be cliquey though. Atheists and agnostics don't hang around together or meet and do the same things, or form clubs or societies or schools.

It would be a bit odd. A bit like a society of people all of whom don't believe in wearing invisible orange jumpers.

I am forming a clique of those who have seen a butterfly piss.

Sorry, am I spoiling this intectually challenging discussion by my ancedotes about butterfly piss?

No, I'll take butterfly piss above religion any day.

It pissed right on dd's shoe!

It was a beautiful moment.

Good thread.

I think, in history, much of the bad stuff ostensibly caused by religion was really politics, ie people using religion in the pursuit of power.

Not religious myself, but a live-and-let-liver, so I think personal religion is Good Thing (if that's what suits you) and makes life better for the individual and probably those around them too.

Whereas organised religion can be - has been - a very Bad Thing, because it's too easily hijacked by other agendas.

Like pissing butterflies.

i think religeon is rubbish.

faith is great -s omething you non faith types dont get.

Custy has put it so much better than me! Religion vs faith.

There is nothing to "get".

there is - but you aint got it

butterfly piss - well done

I'll neer be convinced. I don't feel I'm losing out.

Butterfly piss I can see. I'm sure it's one of the masterpices of God's creation...