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Original poster

Can't work out if my boss has sacked me,.

41 replies

jampot · 15/07/2004 16:07

I know I have posted about problems at work with my boss employing all his family and the issues that it creates. Well my boss has now totally confused me (I think). I telephoned into the office to get an update and after a very stilted conversation with one colleague was put through to the boss who then proceeded to accuse me of not doing my job properly listing things which are absolutely nothing to do with me. Normally I would be quite submissive but decided that I should just stand up for myself so we ended up having a 40 minute argument him throwing accusations and me dispelling them and reminding him of meetings/conversations/emails/other action to substantiate my case - in most instances he backed down. Anyway during the course of this argument he said he did not want me to work from home any more doing what I was doing and that his mum would continue doing it, so I would have to go into the office. I reminded him that at interview and several times since I have told him I have no child care for school hols and that my place of work is at home (in any event there is no room at the office). His upshot was he has no role for me if I stop doing my job (which he has told me to do). I asked him if he wanted me to leave and he said "It's nothing personal...." Obviously!
Then he turned the tables on me and asked if I wanted to stay. Can anyone tell me if I've been sacked or made redundant? I left the conversation as I was starting to get upset and told him I couldn't continue talking to him and would have to call back which I did but he was out at the time.

OP posts:
Twinkie · 15/07/2004 16:09

Ring ACAS (SP) and see what they say!

SoupDragon · 15/07/2004 16:16

It sounds like he's trying to get you to quit because he has no good reason to sack you. Is this constructive dismissal?

sponge · 15/07/2004 16:34

Well he can't just sack you without good cause and there are processes he would have to go through - verbal and written warnings etc.
It doesn't sound like he can make you redundant either as he still wants someone to do what you are doing (his mum).
So if he wants to part company with you his only course of action is a voluntary agreement between the two of you, which would obviously have to involve a pay off that you were happy with. That's if you want out.

If not you could dig your heels in or do him for wrongful dismissal as it doesn't sound like he has any real grounds.

sis · 15/07/2004 16:34

Jampot, how long have you been with this employer? (you need at least two years to get any redundancy pay). I would assume that he has not sacked you until he explicitly says so.

Maybe you should write to him to say that your understanding is that the contractual agreement is for you to work from home during the school holidays and if he wishes for you to attend the office to discuss the matter further over the holidays then you will need plenty of notice to arrange childcare. You could also add that , in the meantime, you will be working from home as per your contract.

If they do not provide you with work, that is their problem - they must still pay you until your employment ends.

Could he have been overheard when he was talking to you on the phone this afternoon with all the accusations? If so, I would also add in the letter something along the lines of: in future, if you have any sensitive issues that you wish to discuss with me could you please ensure that it is done in privacy.

HTH

Original poster
jampot · 15/07/2004 16:42

I've been employed with this guy for just over 2.5 years. Although I was originally taken on and do work from home there have been occasions (admittedly not in the last year) where he has required me to work within the office. My contract (given to me in April) states that my place of work is the office address even though I do not have a place/office there and all my work is on my home computer and I use my telephone line to conduct any business. It isn't just a holiday arrangement this really is where I work.
And no I do not want to stay working for him but I do not wish to resign either

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sis · 15/07/2004 17:00

Jampot, it doesn't really matter what it says in the written contract if, in practice, something different applies. So, although the written contract says the office is the place of work, as you almost always work from home, that is your real contractual place of work. If you have been with the company for over two years and were between the age of 21 and 41 at the time then, if you were made redundant, you would be entitled to two weeks pay with an upper limit of £270 per week (whoa there! don't go spending it all at once! - it is a pathetic amount for loss of job isn't it?)

You could write and tell him that you think you job is redundant as he is reorganising the way the work is done so you will no longer carry out your current duties. You could then say that he seems to have made these decisions without any consultation (as required by law) and you would like to know what steps he is going to take to resolve the situation, or, if you want to take some money and run - ask him to contact you to discuss an amicable arrangement for a parting of the ways and then prepare to negotiate.

bundle · 15/07/2004 17:04

try the ACAS helpline, they're v nice. 08457 474747

Original poster
jampot · 15/07/2004 17:07

Only thing that worries me is that he is a lawyer and his wife is an employment lawyer

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bundle · 15/07/2004 17:09

the ACAS helpline are either lawyers or they have lawyers to advise you. I phoned them about a personnel issue recently (I help out with our nursery) and it's all confidential

lavender1 · 15/07/2004 17:20

jampot, your situation mirrors the problems I've been having with my boss before I resigned.

Re: working from home, what does it actually stipulate in the contract, I mean does it say you may be expected from time to time to work from home to cover time at home with children?...because if it does or similar and it has been agreed, then he is not sticking to his side of the agreement ( a contract is an agreement between two parties, which cannot be changed without the consent of one of the parties)...if he is saying he doesn't want you to be doing your job because you wont now work at the office all the time then he is being grossly unfair....he can't dismiss you if it's been agreed that you do this....have you taken him to one side and asked him why he is changing his mind and that this needs to be discussed properly when you've both had chance to cool down..

Original poster
jampot · 15/07/2004 17:40

Lavendar - in my contract it simply states that my place of work is [the office]. having said that even though it is my job to bring business into the firm he said I didn't need an appraisal and he hasn't set me ANY target even though I asked. He has put as my job description: Marketing Executive/Administrative Assistant obviously to cover his arse even though I haven't touched a file in about 18 months. He has also put this description and a seriously crap write up on the website - even his sister who started work there a year ago and came from a travel agency sounds more experienced than me!! (and she is seriously thick)

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Freckle · 15/07/2004 17:51

Perhaps you need to send him a letter, pointing out that the gist of the conversation has left you wondering whether he has sacked you or not. State that you have no intention of resigning, he cannot make you redundant as he is clearly arranging for someone else to do your job and that, if he sacks you, this constitutes unfair dismissal and what does he intend to do about it? Should put a rocket up his pants. And you then have something in writing should the matter need to go any further.

Original poster
jampot · 15/07/2004 18:01

The general story in the office is that his mum is self employed - however, nosy cow that I am I have discovered that she is on the payroll. I discovered this by simply looking at the payroll so presumably is an employee?

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sis · 15/07/2004 19:06

Jampot, don't be put off by the fact that they are lawyers - the very worst cases on employment law books are those involving lawyers - they seem to have a track record of being 'bad' employers. Also, think of all the high profile city discrimination cases that crop up in the papers - so many of them involve law firms with whole teams of specialist employment lawyers!

The Acas helpline can be useful but it is often worth double checking the advice given because the training they give to the advisers ain't what it used to be.

MeanBean · 16/07/2004 06:51

Jampot, I want to agree with what Sis is saying, don't be intimidated by the fact that they are lawyers, they are just as likely to screw up legally in employment law as anyone else.

Original poster
jampot · 16/07/2004 12:29

been to doctors and am written off with anxiety for 2 weeks maybe stretching into 4 if necessary

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Ronniebaby · 16/07/2004 15:51

Jampot, you will have to let us know what he says or decides. Hugs for you sweetie

sis · 16/07/2004 16:05

I hope you feel better after a break from work.

Original poster
jampot · 19/07/2004 00:28

Have just received an email from boss saying sorry that I'm not feeling well and if myself or my doctor feel its okay, maybe we could meet within the next couple of weeks to discuss or failing that we could arrange to meet after that time. Also assuring me he hasn't dismissed me nor made me redundant. Am very confused now - anyone else think he's backtracking to save his arse?

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Freckle · 19/07/2004 06:58

I'd send an email back repeating what was said in your telephone conversation and asking him to explain his comments then. If he is not sacking you or making you redundant, what did he mean by "there is no job for you" and "it's nothing personal", etc. etc. Get him to clarify what he meant and to explain what your role is exactly now.

sis · 19/07/2004 10:37

Jampot, it would be helpful if you made diary notes of who said what and when so that when he denies having made the comments, you have contemporaneous notes which are always worth more in evidence then notes made many days/weeks after the event. Hopefully, you won't need to use it as evidence but just in case...

Yes, looks like he has calmed down and is backtracking very fast. May be worth asking if you can take someone along with you at the meeting as you found the last telephone call so confusing when he said there was no job for you yet claims that he did not dismiss you.

Original poster
jampot · 09/08/2004 15:23

Just to update everyone who gave me advice on here. I went to see CAB last week who informed me that even though I hadn't signed my contract (which states that my place of work is at the head office address)it can be construed that I have accepted this as the norm. Consequently without being given my contract I would have had a good case but they couldn't see anyway I could take boss to a tribunal now.

I've had a meeting with him this morning and he has conceded that he was wrong in asking me to change my workplace especially before a long school holiday and he wants me to continue doing his marketing. We have agreed I will work in the office but will have the school holidays off as unpaid leave in addition to my normal annual leave (if I choose). He has agreed that I can be in charge of all aspects of marketing and he will not delegate any of my work to anyone else. All in all probably quite a good deal if only I didn't hate him

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sis · 09/08/2004 15:49

I think the CAB pereson is wrong - if in practice you work from home and not from head office then the contractual position is that your place of work is your home. Employment tribunals look at the real situation rather than what bits of papers say! It may be that the CAB person was a specialist contract lawyer as opposed to a specialist employment lawyer or just did not know his/her stuff. I would recommend a second opinion, unless you are happy with the new agreement you have reached with your employer.

Twiglett · 10/08/2004 09:03

message withdrawn

Original poster
jampot · 02/11/2004 18:43

Just to update, I have been doing my job under the new regime now for 2 months and even though we agreed a 6 month period within which to bring a set amount of work in, he has today told me he does not wish me to continue in this role (even though I am on target)but wishes me to do admin within the office, I will have to "hotdesk" as he has no place for me.

Does anyone have the winning lottery numbers for the next game?

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