Been reported to Social services... shocked/stunned etc etc

[windypops]

I know there are some wise people on mumsnet, just wanted some advice and assurance really.

Ok to cut a long story short, my ds and I had been having issues with pre-school, there was a thread a while back about my son been put on assessment for his behaviour, basically he was a good boy outside of school, but while at pre-school he was totally different ~ all the while DH and I insisting they were too soft on him. They even went as far as getting his assessed as the thought it might have some difficulties, his spatial awareness was assessed and turned out nothing wrong and in fact bright and needs to be stimulated more as getting bored. I even got to a stage where I had observed the pre-school routine and wrote notes and suggestions to them as to why my ds would be taking the mickey (ie not disiplining him, if ds was being distruptive, they moved the child next to him) and things like that.

About 6/8 weeks ago I noticed that DS had 2 identical bruises on each side, asking him about this he said that someone at pre-school had pinched him (I took photos of them and wrote a letter to the pre-school with my concerns) I tried to find out who had done them and after asking several (hundred times) ds came up with a name, when it was investigated at the pre-school the name ds had given was a boy who had been away on holiday, when I asked DS about this he then said it was another boy who was one of his best friends, he said he was playing with him and he kept pulling him about (to me the buises looked like he had been pinched/pulled as there was a smaller one to indicate a thumb print), I gave the pre-school the new information who was aware that these 2 were friends but often came to blows, but wasn't prepared to take it that seriously (and i agreed) because ds had previously name another person.

Then 3 weeks ago whilst we were all on holiday ds played with this 6 year old girl who was very bossy and my ds is very independent and didn't want to play, we often caught her pulling him about and jabbing him while playing, they were quite friendly mainly, but ds came to us and said she does this and I dont like it (jabbing and tickling the side) days later we noticed very similar bruises and on return to pre-school when asked did he have a good time he said 'yes' i met a friend who did this (pulled up his top) and showed them. When I collect ds from school she asked if she could have a word and said that ds had said had done this and she is always doing it, I told them that he had only met on holiday and could not have been responsible for the other bruises. this I thought was the end of it. Then 10 days later I dropped ds at school this morning and they asked if they could have a word, where they informed me that they had reported me to social services, I was and still am totally shocked, so I got my Ds and took him home, I was about to burst into tears and wanted my ds with me.

I was advised my a friend to take DS to the doctors and speak to health visitor which I have done, both known me for ages and feel it will just go away.

When I got back there was a message on the answerphone asking me to call social services, my friend turned up, then 20 mins later there was a knock at the door and it was social services who came in and interviewed me, they then asked ds a few questions. They were really nice and explained that they had to follow us any reports of it.

I am just suprised that they came out so quickly. I now have to wait for her to report to her boss who will then decide if further action needs to be taken.

To top it off I have DH who is fuming (quite rightly) he feels they are doing this because I reported them for the bruises that ds had whilst in there care, not to mention the letter telling them where they were going wrong, and being bullied into the committee only to say i couldn't do it a week later, he feels retalitory.

I just wanted to vent really and ask if anyone had expereinced this or can offer advice.

I dont actually smack ds I have not for at least a year, I find star charts and sitting on the stairs a far better way to behave.

Might also add that when his behaviour started being bad a school was around the time I was unwell and he saw me collapse on the floor hemorraghing and rushed to hispital.

Sorry for going on so long.

Windypops all I can say is that you are lucky you know who reported you! I was reported to SS for shouting at my kids. We have no idea to this day who reported us, but they seemed to have a lot of information. I did ask 3 neighbours and all denied it. Basically it was at really stressful time and I was finding full time work and 2 kids and everything too much to handle and I did shout too much.

It really shocked and upset me for a long long time, as my dd pre-school was informed the GP and everyone else. In fact it just added to my upset and I found I didn't dare go into my garden with my kids for weeks, just in case.

As it was SS simply asked questions over the phone and wouldn't tell me who called them. I had to put it in the back of my mind, but even now nearly 3 yrs later I still go cold at the thought.

FFS your pre-school is bang out of order, and I would not send him back. I would also call OfStead or whoever to complain about the lack of action when you complained about previous bruises - or whould that just be petty??? Actually I would insist on a meeting witht the owner of the school and sit down and discuss their actions - write it down to be precise and calmer. Find out their reasons for reporting you, and find out why they didn't seem to care previously.

She caled SS to tell them that she has told me and I have taken him out.

Good news.

SS have just called and said they are not going to take the matter any further glad they came back the same day or else I might not have slept tonight for worrying.

she did said that she thought the pre-school acted within the guidelines they would expect, although she said they should have discussed it with us before they contact them.

Still angry, not sure what to do, leave them to it, or take the matter further.

Crunchie ~ sorry to hear about your situation, although I don't smack ds I do shout at him, thats awful and cowardly for not telling you.

windypops, I'm glad that they told you - it sounds like a total nightmare of a day! enjoy the extra long summer holiday with your ds!

Hi there windypops! You do of course have my sympathies but il echo suzywong's concerns over Victoria Climbie. I would prefer to be contacted by social services, knowing as you do, that my child is safe and well looked after on a minor occiurance in the hope that this attitude may prevent another case like VC ever happening again? So i can understaning how distressing it was for you. But at the end of the day social workers are not out there to remove children for the hell of it? They are there to help? Well thats just the way i see it? maybe a bit too contraversial?

agree with you that SS have to follow up an accusation of abuse and would be only too pleased to help them. But this is a case where it appeared that the nursery's motivation was not to protect children, but to bully and intimidate a parent because she got too uppity with them. Their lack of consistency in reporting the other child, and their failure to talk to Windypops, is not a good sign. And I just think that this growing intimidation of parents, this constant threat of an accusation of child abuse on the flimsiest evidence, is an extremely effective means of keeping parents? mouths shut. And it is just not right. Reducing parents to frightened, submissive people who are afraid to complain about bad practices in case they are accused of abuse, does not protect children, it protects people who are doing their job badly and don?t want to be complained about. Windypops, I'm fuming on your behalf, but I'm so glad it ended quickly for you - hope it doesn't upset your summer too much.

Glad it's going OK Windpops, what a relief. If I was in your shoes I'd still send a solicitor's letter to the pre-school, cc'd to Ofsted, for the records if nothing else. Yes, you can argue that social services have to follow up complaints, but the pre-school have clearly, from what you say, acted in a vindictive manner, seeking to cause trouble and presumably shift any blame from themselves. What if the next family they attack is vulnerable for some reason?

Chloeb, if only that were true. Sadly, if you look at the lost mothers threads, it isn't. Social services and paediatricians have fallen victim to some sort of collective psychosis that sees evil parents everywhere. There are real tragedies happening up and down the country because no-one is allowed to question their beliefs, even when they fly in the face of the evidence. Even doctors are persecuted if they dare to point out the facts instead of falling into line and agreeing with this fashion for labelling parents and pretending it's a diagnosis. Really, really frightening. There but for the grace of God go all of us.

Sorry, that was supposed to start with Chloe, I don't think that's too controversial, I think most of us would agree... but I cut the first bit because I was in a hurry and fuming!

I've been talking to a mum at school today who reckons she's had SS round and they've advised she kick her DH out because he's too old?? They said she needs to tidy her garden and it's illegal for her twins(6) to play outside on their own. I don't agree with the latter BTW, her kids are too young for that. I just can't believe that SS would say that about her DH. There must be something else going on? He's 17 years older than her but even so this is beyond belief. I feel annoyed really that she thinks myself and the other mums would fall for this. And what really got to me and I don't know if I can bear to speak to her again was she kept repeating 'and she was black' about the social worker. I just said what has that got to do with anything? I'm dumfounded and just wait to hear what she says tomorrow.

Good news indeed, Windypops. I still think that you shouldn't take your ds back if you can manage not to. Definitely write to them and Ofsted - it may not make much difference to their behaviour but you never know, and it will make you feel better to 'shut the door' on the affair.

Windypops - glad things have been sorted out for you re social services.

Edam - re your comments about social workers and paediatricians - am amazed at broad sweeping generalisations about this or that group of people, especially when you're posting on a thread where it seems that SS responded sensibly. Am not here to defend social workers or paeditircians etc but yes am going to say it ... there's good and bad in all types of people, professions etc. You never know how many people post on here belong to these groups you've slated. mini-rant over!!

Windypops,

I'm glad that common sense has prevailed and SS are dropping it. However, the whole thing must leave you feeling very bitter and wronged! - poor you.

My 2 year old is continously covered in bruises, scratches and marks - she is just a bit rough and tumble (always falling over, careering into things)...I must admit, I've often worried in case Day Nursery thought any of these marks were odd...

what an awful day for you, windypops. From what you've said, it sounds like the pre school head was far too presumptious in calling Social Services.

I find the timing of it very odd as well, so near the end of term, as she has presumably known you and your son for a while. In your shoes, I would want to know if any of this will be reported to the school your son joins next term. I know it has come to nothing, social services are satisfied, but still, will anything be passed on to your son's new school - as in 'SS were contacted about *** but were satisfied so no further action was taken'

If anything like this gets passed on to the school I'd kick up a fuss and ask the head and SS lots more questions.

Poor you, windy. What a horrid day for you. The preschool sound like they jumped the gun bigtime and in any case should definitely have discussed this with you before involving social services. That's basic good practice unless to do so would put the child in a dangerous position. I guess the good side is that social services seem to have handled things well. Hope you feel better about things soon.

Just wanted to add, when my oldest ds was 5 he suffered a badly grazed arm due to a fall in a playground, followed by a cut forehead a month later. In each case he had to go to the hospital emergency department. This triggered a phone call from social services to us at home. They asked a few routine questions, explained why they had called (the two recent hospital incidents) and that was that.

I do wonder if it was the fact your son's bruises appeared twice in the same place, and only weeks apart, that triggered events? Perhaps the pre school has been instructed that it's a specific pointer to abuse, but obvioulsy this had no truth in your case. If it was something like this, I think you need to be told so.

Just an update, DH and I went back to the school with a list of about 20 questions that we wanted to ask the pre-school leader. We were in there just over an hour and still did not get a satisfactory outcome. Basially.

1. over the past 2 years she has never had any other reason to suspect anything.

2. it took 8 days from seeing the bruises to reporting them because she is not familiar with the process.

3. it took her 4 days to contact me after she reported us because she called twice and no answer (she has mobile no etc etc)

4. Even though I complained that he got the first set of bruises at pre-school she never actually saw it so she had to go on the possibility that it happened elsewhere.

5. She asked advice from an a helpline who suggested that she should contact SS. Funny that they would say that as they dont know us. What else would I expect a total stranger to say other than (if your concerned contact SS).

6. Even though my friends child has had 2 different black eyes, burn't hand and dislocated shoulder all within a few months ~ she refused to answer why she never called SS on her even though they were genuine, because she wont comment on individual cases.

7. When I mentioned that I had taken advice from another pre-school leader who advised, that in her opinion they had not acted accordingly, she would of monitored the child over a longer period of time, especially as the brusing was not on the list of places to watch out for. The funny thing is, 2 days before this meeting, I had to sign the accident book as he fell over and whacked his hip on a table. All she replied was that we do it differently here.

The other pre-school leader said that they have to inform parents before contacting social services, but we were told by our pre-school leader that is not the case.

We do feel as though we have been picked on and thinking of contacting ofsted, we are giving ourselves a week or 2 to think about it and calm now.

Just thought I would update.

The Pre-school may be run by a committee. If so, speak to the chair and ask them to bring it to the attention of the committee. Complain that their procedures are a) crap and b) not being followed anyway. And then vote with your feet: take your ds out of there and tell them why. They are paid on a per child basis. It sounds as if she was defensive, which is understandable but IMO she should be apologising to you. Sorry you've had to go through this.

Like www's idea. And I would go for Ofsted. C*w.

Agree bigtime with www, this is a horrid thing to happen and I'm so sorry you went through it.

Do have one big proviso, tho- whatever you decide to do in terms of complaining, please try your very hardest to let this go emotionally when your ds leaves the pre-school. I've met parents who can't forget incidents like this and it taints their relationships with all professionals they meet in regard to their children for years to come. Very, very understandable reaction on their part but it really can be disasterous for all concerned. Having said that, not sure how you go about putting something like this behind you... Sounds like you are handling things v well.

They have called SS on you before you have called SS on them, they are always being over cautious and paranoid, yes be angry yes be very upset and you will tell the truth and they will listen to you.
An exp of mine reported me to SS once for being a negligent parent, this was pretty easily rebuffed when they visited.
I was told it stays on your childs "records" though?
I would hesitate to return my child to a nursery that did that without proper consultation beforehand.
Perhaps a crisis meeting with you, SS and the nursery is called for?
Good luck, pretty ghastly experience for you.
Big hugs

Just for an update (and I have gone back to my old posting name).

I spoke to Ofsted and then followed us with a letter of complaint and report on things that has happened, it was 13 pages in total.

My DS has started school last week, his new teacher is lovely and the teaching assistant also nice, I witnessed an incident where I was suggesting that DS was trying the boundaries and was pleased when the teaching assistent did not give an inch and DS responded well.

I will have to wait and see what ofsted say. All the anger did come back while I was tying the letter/report, it is only vented at one person, although it went the second I handed it over at the post office, I think it was more at myself at a month had passed since it all happened and I had done nothing about it, so the next week I concentrated on it. I was also outraged that on one of my sons assessments I was shown the report and given a copy, when I was preparing my report I noticed that it was not signed like the other one, I contacted the person who had done the assessment and they said it was a 2-page assessment, so when I received it in full the second page stated that every time DS was given tasks to do by her he sat there and did everything she wanted from him, but then went on to list things that the the pre-school needed to do in help dealing with my son, ie they were not giving firm command, and saying things like "did I ask you get up" instead of "sit down" etc etc, no wonder I never saw that one.

I don't know what I expect from the outcome, even if the letter is held on file so that if anyone ever has complaint about her again they can take further steps.

Just wanted to update you because I had some great advice/support here

well done on reporting them Breeze. I think Ofsted don't tell parents what the results of complaints are ? that terrifying nursery documentary featured parents who had complained and couldn't get any info from Oftsted. Maybe they've changed their policy since, don't know. But glad ds is doing well at school.

am really proud of you sticking up for yourself it cant be easy for you. well done

Forgot to post my update.

I got a letter saying that they had looked into it and that the pre-school are having to change their procedures and ofsted will go back to ensure that they have done this.

I spoke to the lady at ofsted, she was very nice and assured me that my complaint will be held on their records and that people will be able to read details of it on the website.

I just feel good that I have followed through.

It makes me feel even better because nearly 3 months into his new school, DS has settled in very well, he is one of the better behaved children in her class, and she admitted to me that she has a few naughty ones there, rest assured that my DS was not one of them. He loves school and enjoys it and doing very well in his work.

I was a little annoyed though at the parent/teacher meeting because she admitted that before ds started from what she heard about him she was very concerned/worried about him coming into her class, and she said he is fine.
Talk about giving DS a bad name before he has even started the school

excellent - well done you