Obvious solution or disaster in making? Debts forcing dd2, bf and dgs to ask a "favour"...

[lemonice]

Can we move in with you, Mum?

Bf owes back council tax and utility bills and has one year old child from previous relationship. Was working and now isn't although doing the odd day through an agency. Also silly loan from Provident (door to door).

Dd and bf have ds (b April) and dd is on maternity leave. She has paid off some of bfs debts but now can't pay bills, owes council tax etc.

At the moment they live in exdh house who lives in HK and he doesn't charge them full market rent but it's a nice house with high council tax, bills etc. Bf friends and my ds hang out there all day and night general non work ethic, mess making playing playstation etc. Dd is fed up no time to herself or with bf to maintain relationship.

My house is a mess and definitely not baby friendly (think renovation project and worse) with 3 beds (not very big) and piles of stuff inherited from my mum and no storage, no kitchen etc and dp doing the renovation work.

If I say yes I'm going to have to make some ground rules and can see lots of problems. I'm wondering how I'll cope with all these teenagers.

Any suggestions to make this a success. I really want to help them work things out and get on their feet.

my mum had this with my sister.....she ended up staying there for 9 months, sponging off her. Mum and her dh had no time together and nearly ended up splitting up. sister knew she could take mum for a ride cos she had her baby there with her.

Im not saying you daughter is like this at all, but if you do allow them to move in, then you have to set ground rules and maybe even a time limit? if you give her a time limit then she can go to the council and say that she is threatened with homlesness, and that she is loving with you as a temporary measure. If the council ask you then you can always say about the work being done and how its not suitable for a baby to be there while work is being done.

My mum ended up kicking my sister out as it was splitting her and her dh up. Sister got a council house the next day!

I would be very much minded to charge them 'rent' when they stay with you. This will help to show them that they still have responsibilities. If you wish you can put this into a savings account and give some or all of it back to them when they leave, and this will help them with their debts/start up costs in a new house.

If you don't mind me asking what was the cause of the debt, was it caused by the sort of problems that can land on anyone, or was it due to bad money management? If the latter then I'd def. charge them some rent, or they will never get used to managing on a budget.

It also might be worth insisting that thet see citizens Advice over the debt before you let them move in with you.

Sorry if I sound like a harsh old bag.

To be honest lemonice, it sounds like it's asking for trouble.

If it were me, I'd try to help them out in other ways - either a long-term interest free loan or a bail-out payment with strings: i.e. make it on the condition that they get a lodger to help cover the high bills.

But if you do let them stay with you (which may be the only option, admittedly) then make sure you charge them rent (or at least a fair share of bills - probably easiest to work out the average and charge them weekly). I would charge a nominal rent in addition to bills too.

Most important ground rules:

1. you get at least one evening a week with the living room to yourself.
2. only x number of friends in living room at the same time
3. you are not a free babysitter (or you only do it x times a week).

But I agree that a council house sounds like a good option!

Basically I think bf didn't pay his bills when in his flat. Dd has paid off some, she has only been with him for about a year and now neither of them are earning. She has grown up a lot in the last year and has really tried to manage and budget but his debts have crawled out of the wood work. She was working really hard in a cafe up to just before the baby. I resent that some of the money I gave to help for baby has gone on his old debts, I didn't want them having any more court orders. They'd have to pay their keep at my house because we have no spare cash. I've not said yes yet but I expect i will. They asked me this morning and my first instinct was to tell bf that he'd have to get a job and keep it. I feel sorry for dd.

Oh dear, not ideal to say the least but at the end of the day it's obvious from your posts that you want to do the right thing and help her, of course you do. I think you have to set ground rules re a structered way of saving so they can get back on their feet agian etc etc. I suppose this is the only solution.

Perhaps on a practical level you have a big clear out, all hands on deck, sell soem stuff and put towards either finishing some decoration or their debts, whichever you decide.
You draw up a rota for cooking, cleaning etc, work soemthing out that suits all and stick to it.

Start a saving plan where they put a certain amount away each week to pay off their debt

Make sure they have a longterm plan, what will they do when debts paid off, where will they live next and how wiull they acheive that goal.

Set ground rules out re visitors and you say what you think is reasonable.

Good luck!

This is me being a really mean old bag (much meaner than hmb ) but in this position I would be so inclined to say yes to dd and baby but not to bf. I know it would be bad for their relationship and for the baby with its father, but it would mean that you would help out your dd without the stress of having the bf living with you and might make him be a bit more responsible.

Are you confident that your DD's bf is not taking advantage of her? If he has a child of one from his previous relationship, it doesn't sound as if he has been with your dd all that long - and she is paying his debts off for him, jeopardising her own position? IMO the onus needs to be on him to get back into regular work. Is your dd planning to go back to work after maternity leave? it will be much harder for them to find another property to move out into on the budget they will have if bf still doesn't have a job - and you'll be landed for a long long time.

What is their longer term plan, and how realistic is it? I think I'd get tough - he should turn his attention away from playstation and to getting work, and pay his own rent! You have enough on your plate, by the sounds of it! How does your dp feel about it?

if bf didnt live there then your dd would get more points on the council for being forced to live apart.

sorry, my post crossed lemonice.
I think I'd only have bf in the house if he would put SERIOUS effort into the renovation with your dp on days he wasn't working. You don't really want him hanging round the house all day, do you?

Oh no, I can see why but you can't say no to the bubba's dad. he has to sort himself out but maybe her needs a chance to do so. You can't split the family up. He sounds like he needs a bit if a kick up the backside but you can't split them up. Oh Lemonrice, what a horrid situation. I know you're going to say yes to them and I know you know it won't be ideal but hopefully it will work out. i just hope he doesn't take the p.

Bottom line is you don't want it to be too comfortable for them (esp for bf tbh). So state some basic rules, I think helping out with chores is a must or you will default to being 'mummy' and taking it all on, and that wuld not be fair.

And get them to see the CAB about their debts! Insist on it before theu move in. The CAB can help them to work out repayment etc. They are free and very helpful

Hmmm a very difficult one. I can see on the one hand you would not want to split gs from his dad -but on the other it seems very concerning that bf does not seem to have any motivation to support his family, and that he has been happy to land your daughter in a mess financially. Does bf give any emotional or financial support to his one year old? If he does give financial support has your daughter been in effect paying for this? I think you have to ask them to spell out what the advantages are of living with you rather than exdh's house - do they envisage not having to pay you rent/contribution towards bills? If bf continued to play with his friends in your house, and not contribute financially, would you be prepared to throw him out? If they move in and it all goes horribly wrong, do you think that your relationship with dd will remain OK? I think this is going to be fraught with difficulties to say the least, and would tend to agree with SenoraPostraphe to try to help them out in their current cheap house, rather than let them move into yours

Why isn't the bf working? Unless you live in a high unemployment part of the country I think you should insist that he has some kind of work before they move in with you, even if it's shelf stacking at the supermarket. He might say that he's over-qualified for it, or it's not the kind of work he wants, but there's nothing stopping him from looking for a better job while doing it. It does sound to me as though he's too comfortable with not working.

Also if they do move in with you, then I think it's perfectly reasonable for you not to allow him to have friends 'round, and not to take over your living area with his playstation/watching his tv programmes.

To be honest, I think a lot hinges on how well you get on with your daughter, I know I regress to about 15 when I stay with my mother. Do you think it would damage your relationship with your daughter if you and her bf have a disagreement?

I'd help them to stay where they are. Why can't the BF get a job? I've had all sorts of jobs I've hated just to keep working - cleaning, selling double glazing, posing as an artist's model for an art class. I hate the attitude of non-work ethic - like if it all goes wrong your parents will bail you out, it's what they're there for. I've seen two friends crippled with offspring like this - working their arses off to provide twentysomething non-working adults with a roof over their heads.

Can't his parents help out? Or have they washed their hands of him? Sorry, but he sounds like a bit of a loser to me. Not fair that your DD has been working so hard to clear his debts etc and he just does the odd day's work through an agency. If he can do an odd day, why can't he get more regular work?

A friend of my mother's took her 19 year old son and his girlfriend in when they got chucked out of uni for not working. They are now in their mid 30s and still living with her and have never had proper jobs. Why should they? They have a nice place to live, regular meals, don't have to do any housework, pay any bills. Essentially, they've never had to grow up and have any responsibility.

lemonice - DH and I stayed with his parents when we were first together to pay off our debts and save. The idea was to get money together for a deposit for a place.
I can honestly (and embarrasingly) say that when we moved out 2 years later we were no better off! I think that people adapt to their situation and live to their means. If they have no work ethic and no money they will just bring these problems to your house. They will drag you down because unless they change themselves you cant change them.

What they need is a big dose of the real world - not to move to the security and cushioning of your house. They wont learn that way. Agree with what people have said about helping them where they are.
By the way it didnt work out living at dh parents house at all and we all have an excellent relationship - it was a nightmare! I would be very careful about letting them move in. You might not get them out again!

I'm still in a dilemma after reading everyone's replies. I see what is sensible advice but it's still hard to see what is best. Thank you for taking the time it's a comfort to know at least that I can talk to you.

I think I don't know what bf really sees as the future. He says he wants to provide and make a home together but at 19 he just lacks maturity.

As I understand it he left home at 15 and lived in a hostel because he didn't get on with his stepfather, he doesn't have any contact with his own father. His mother seems quite ineffectual.

His exgf lives in a mother and baby hostel on benefits and he has his little boy once a week to stay. He and Dd and he met just over a year ago so clearly maths says this is a bit of a mess. He had a steady job as a pub short order chef until about a month ago and then swapped to a different pub and there was an incident where another chef threw a plate of food at him and he walked out. The factory work he's been offered is better paid but the way it's set up is they ring on the day and it seems that just doesn't give him an incentive to go in. Also I think he sees other people including dd not working and resents it (tough).

For their rent and council tax I think they have to pay about £550 a month, which is a lot on £5.00 an hour. So I think they just can't stay there and I can't afford to bail them out.

If they live with us then the rules would be he has to get a job and stay in it until he finds a better one, no friends dossing around our house and I want to know how much is owed and a plan for paying off (and they'll have to rehome their house rabbit)and no smoking in the house. Frankly I'm not optimistic and can see me turning into the old dragon I was when dd was being a difficult teenager. I feel very sad that last year I was trying to make her go in to school and do AS levels. I feel selfish, angry, frustrated and thoroughly depressed.

don't feel like that the problem is not of your making - a possible atho drastic plan of action could be for exh to write a letter saying he is making them homeless that way the council will have to house them in temporary accommodation- id dd's partner is registered with an agency then he should be able to ask for long term contract jobs which often lead to full time employment (many factories use it as a cheap recruitment method)alternatively you could draw up a contract for them living with you before they move in ie rent how much /when due what happens if not paid. rules re gs and babysitting, late nights, friends etc. this could then make them see it is not an easy option moving in with you

Gothicmamma - you hit the nail on the head in that I do think I've caused the problem in the first place by getting divorced and dd being middle child who always seems to have been hard done by. Unfortunately exh and I are not of the now we get on persuasion and I barely communicate with him although i did send him a message this week to try and persuade ds who has just done his gcses to get a job before he goes back to school. He is in China at the moment so not really on doorstep to lay down rules!

I know I'm going to say yes but can see that I will end up being the "mummy" to bf as well. He says he wants to change because he said when they asked that he thinks his friends are a bad influence and he won't have them to our house. At least if they're with us I might be able to exert some influence although at work six days so not much time to sort them out.

if bf has says that then it sounds promising maybethey just need gently guidance and some support good luck and hugs I am sure if you all communicate then things will be ok

lemonice - make them grow up whilst living with you - it seems like this is a big chance to make a huge difference to 3 people and steer them on to the right road.

By all means make sure he gets a job and one he must stick at, make them pay you rent, do not allow their friends to come round and doss at your house and make them do chores and help out with things that you need doing.

Good luck.

I've discovered something really helpful from your replies I think ie to see it as a wonderful opportunity rather than negative thinking. I'm never very good at the glass half full.

lemonice, i lived with my parents from when i was 6 mnths pregnant until ds was 16 months old. it helped me to save up some money and pay off some debt. i did pay them rent but obivously less than i would if i had lived on my own.

my sister and her partner and their little boy (13 mnths) now live with my parents because they can't afford to buy a house and are trying to save money up for a deposit.

both times it has worked out well, i think my mum and dad feel they have a very strong bond with their grandsons cos they have lived with them for a while (not saying that grandparents who haven't lived with their grandkids don't have this bond-is just their opinion!!).

i think it would probably be wise to set a time limit though-my mum and dad haven't lived on their own since they had kids!! 1'm 26, my sister is 29 and my brother has just finished uni and moved back there. i think they probably thought they would be living on their own by now!!!

lemonice, just read this quickly. Yes, I can see it's really a foregone conclusion that you will have dd, bf and baby to stay, even though you are worried about the practicalities. I agree with you - it's is a chance to steer them in the right direction. I think you have to be tolerant anyway, just because they are so young.

I know the boyfriend must find a job - and later on your daughter too if poss, but considering their ages, realistcally what sort of pay will they get? How well trained is the boyfriend. If he was living in a hostels at 15, what happened to his education? Will he need to go back to college before he can land a the sort of job that will support everyone and also, most importantly, the sort of job he will stick at? I don't know, but when he moves in, if college is the answer (with a part time job outside to bring money in) would you be able to give him, your dd and baby a home till he finishes a course?

I think council housing at some stage is the answer, but very tricky emotionally, I imagine, to be seen to throw out your dd, bf and baby. Though as you may know, councils (well our council at least) have a category called 'homeless at home' ie - you can be on the homeless register without living on the streets. It's for people who are temporarily living with friends or family but have been told to move out.