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Original poster

I find this quite depressing...

22 replies

TheArmadillo · 19/02/2007 20:26

I can't do long posts so this will be split

One of the girls in my lecture described herself today as an 'anti-feminist'. I didn't have time to quiz her on it, but thought I'd take a poll of other students I could find and see what they thought of feminism.

Ok so it was the end of the day so I only found 6 (4 female and 2 male) but the results were thus:

Both men (aged 21 and 30) would describe themselves as 'feminist' in that they believe men and women are equal and should be treated as such.

2 of the women (aged 20 and 21) described themselves (as I would) as feminists (same reasoning as the men).

2 of the women (both aged 21) described themselves as anti-feminist. Their reasoning was that feminists are loud mouthed anti-men who don't shut up about women's rights when we live in acceptably equal society (one arguing that it is easier for women to get jobs, especially in higher paid or traditionally male jobs).

OP posts:

Original poster

TheArmadillo · 19/02/2007 20:26

All those who viewed themselves as 'feminist' argued that we do not live in a equal society, though it is better than it has been (bearing in mind these are all history students so has been can refer to medieval/early modern society).

I found it depressing that at least 2 people not only did not see themselves as feminist (despite obviously believing that both men and women should have equal access to higher education) but actively viewed themselves as anti-feminist.

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Original poster

TheArmadillo · 19/02/2007 20:26

What became obvious though was that they viewed 'feminist' as a 'dirty word' rather than actively being anti-equality. They also believed that women today are not only viewed as equal to men, but also that society in some cases (if not all) favoured women over men.

I find this depressing in that I do not believe that the battle for equality has been won. I also think it is sad that people think of feminism as being so negative and would actively disassociate themselves from it, while taking advantage of those things it has brought them.

Any thoughts?

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gothicmama · 19/02/2007 20:31

nothing really to say but it is sad feminism is seen so negatively. I find it shocking nowadys that palyboy logo is on clothes for quite young girls. I have educated dd as to what it orginally meant and she has now gone of teh idea of having something with it on

TrinityRhino · 19/02/2007 20:34

Unfortunately the only ardent' feminists' I have ever met have been 'man hating, ignorant, women who think that they should get equal pay but that men should 'look after them'

Lio · 19/02/2007 20:37

Yes, I find it depressing. Maybe as they grow older and more experienced they will join us?

Earthymama · 19/02/2007 20:40

I am sad about this too. I'm trying to write a programme to explain feminism to girls from socially deprived backgrounds (Did a thread the other day. It's so hard because they don't understand any of the historical background and have such sad value systems.

Sad because they are so happy to settle for less than they could achieve.

I agree so strongly about the Playboy logo, have complained to Guardian because they promoted Playboy eyeliner the other week!!

I'd appreciate ideas and any research anyone has seen in this field

gothicmama · 19/02/2007 20:42

I did post on your thread - many of the young peopel I work with from deprived backgrounds feel so dienfranchised that feminism is just something for others and also is a culture shock an dcan alienate tehm from friends and family have you looked at some of teh works of lena domineli

Earthymama · 19/02/2007 20:44

TR they may have professed to be feminists but patently weren't!!

We still live in an unequal society. I don't think it's as awful as it was in many ways.

I think the next big battle will be to sort out the double burden of work and family that falls so often on women.

The last wave of feminists were right to challenge in the workplace but times have changed.

gothicmama · 19/02/2007 20:45

yes especially with the refocusing of children's policy back on family life

Earthymama · 19/02/2007 20:45

GM cheers, am not.... not.... NOT supposed to be on here!!!

Carry on and I'll catch up, big day tomorrow for which I must prepare!!

Original poster

TheArmadillo · 19/02/2007 20:55

I don' t think I saw that thread of yours Earthymama.

I am hoping that they will change their minds as they get older, but one of them I don't think they will

However the upside was that both the men I spoke to saw themselves as feminist and strongly believed in equality for the sexes

As strongly as I believe everyone has the right to hold their own opinion and as strongly as I believe in free speech, I believe these women are wrong. And I don't believe society will become much more equal until they are willing to accept this. And I agree with Earthymama's statement that it is 'Sad because they are so happy to settle for less than they could achieve.' maybe not in these people's cases but in general.

It made me very as well as , because I think it devalues the work done by those who helped change things. IT seems almost as if they believe these changes were a form of evolution rather than a hard battle.

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gothicmama · 19/02/2007 20:58

it reflects a patriachial society in that all the campaign has been discredited to the extent people have forgotten the struggle and also reflects current society's apathatic views on how things are and teh general acceptance of the status quo

Original poster

TheArmadillo · 19/02/2007 21:01

yep I think that just about sums it up . I think those who promoted anti-feminist propaganda must be rubbing their hands at the current situation

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Hassled · 19/02/2007 21:10

Gothicmama is right that people have forgotten the struggle - when my 17 year old DD said she didn't think she'd bother to vote when she's 18 (because politics is "boring" - what creature have I raised??) I had an almighty rant about whether the Pankhursts had just been wasting their time - but a) she knew next to nothing about the suffragette movement (scarily she's taking A Level History) and b)didn't equate those issues with feminism. At 17, she really hasn't had to face any inequalities and sees feminists as dungaree-wearing lesbians who have no role in her life. So is it back to education?

WideWebWitch · 19/02/2007 21:15

Some good threads on this are you a feminist? and why aren't more women feminists, surely no-one thinks the battles have all been won?

Muminfife · 19/02/2007 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

expatinscotland · 19/02/2007 21:28

Yes, I have noticed a LOT of hoochie little girls clothes here. Sorry, but I will NOT be exposing my daughter's midriff.

WTF.

expatinscotland · 19/02/2007 21:28

JonBenet Ramsay

Pann · 19/02/2007 21:43

Sometimes wander between ranting from time to time, and just sitting back thinking 'whatelse is going to make a tiny peice of difference?'

this PM saw a t.v. advert for, I think Burger King (the one that encourages human's to eat out of 'buckets' anyway), and they have a special 'line' in selling this stuff called "Mum's Night Off"...so the family spend a wodge of cash, so that mum has a night off from cooking and washing up....

and there's more......the advert is narrated and acted out by a girl aged 8-10 or so...she doles outthe portions, she throws the empty bits away......

FGS..just to cheer everyone up.....

Muminfife · 19/02/2007 21:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

gothicmama · 19/02/2007 21:46

I saw that ad too, it soooo wrong.

Original poster

TheArmadillo · 19/02/2007 21:57

Didn't see that ad (don't watch much telly nowadays) but that is quite appalling. But of ads I do remember quite a lot of them are in the same vein. Showing men as stupid and slaves to women, or only interested in sex, or other typically 'macho' stereotypes. Women are portrayed as the cleaners, childcarers, focusing on their appearence (diet adverts, cosmetic adverts). Its rare to see an advert that doesn't potray gender stereotypes.

The sexualisation of women, and the encouragement of this idea towards young girls is also terrible, but oh so prevelent.

It scares me how people accept this as the 'norm' and don't even notice it

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