Advice needed ----ds1 punched in nose and had nose bleed at school

[champs]

I'm so angry. this boy has been picking on ds1 i was meant to have a word with his teacher. went to collect him tuesday and i find out said boy punched him and gave him a nose bleed. teacher did nothing, i had a go at her, feel kind of bad but she kept going on saying ds1 and boy always does this or that and ds1 says this or that. but the fact is that the boy punched ds1 without him hitting him first. this boy has already moved from a different class. I went to see head cos teacher was just being so stupid. but she wasn't there, talked to welfare type teacher and she said she'll try to get class teacher to talk to me, i said i will not send ds1 to school till matter is dealt with. and asked her to leave note for head. I wasn't contacted today and will phone tommorrow...
what do you think i should do? dh is backing me all the way with this one but i dont want to come accross as a hyper mother. I actually want the boy to be emoved from the class, the class was such a nice one. what would you do? i hate confrontation (unless it's on tv but do feel i have to stand up for ds1. should i ask other parents if their kids have mentioned anything? Should I talk to boys parents??!!
ds1 has a party to go to next week, and really dont want him to go if boy is there, i have seen how the boy is and behaves and i dont like it one bit.

BUMPARAMA !

I'd arrange to see the head teacher champs.

How old is you boy?
We moved our 3yr DS1 out of Nursery due to very similar series of incidents. Teachers said they just couldn't police the kids all the time and therefore couldn't stop it happening.
Sorry can't offer any advice on older kids, but I can empathise with your distress, it really seems unfair doesn't it.

champs you were not over reacting because at the end of the day that was asult and i am dsgusted that the teacher did nothing about it i would also talk to the head master or mistress and put across that you are not to pleased with the way it was handled after all if that child was older he would be up in court on abh so why should children be treated any different
plus verbal it totaly diferent from phisycal can hurt just as much but it dont end up with blood everywhere
hope you get some sense out of the head

hi all,
suzy... he is 6
school still hasn't contacted us. dh called today and was told head was out for morn but would be contacted when she came back. so now he has to miss 3 days of school

Don't talk to the parents. You need to talk to the school- and it should be dealt with properly by the school. The story sounds quite confused though, so be prepared to listen until you find out exactly what went on. That way you will come across as reasonable as well (schools can get very defensive). I cannot understand why they haven't got back to you faster though. Be careful about keeping out for too much longer though as you'll get done for truancy! I think you MUST talk to the head ASAP. This needs to be sorted. Ring again now- and make sure you speak to the head. Ask for a face to face meeting tomorrow morning.

9am on wednesday!!! wednesday??!! are they mad will ring tomorrow and not take no for an answer. that will be a whole week, not willing to keep him off that long. and also he has a trip on mon which he'll love...grrrr

spot on advice, jimjams!

Definitely agree - don't speak to the parents as the story is too confused. I am very surprised the head or a teacher on head's behalf hasn't come back to you sooner. Demand an appointment tomorrow.

How did your ds react to the punch and nosebleed? IME punches are not uncommon occurances with 6 year old boys. Not that this excuses things. But was your son really upset or more matter of fact about it? does he have an on off friendship with this boy? are they into playfighting together? is your son bullied? does your son try to avoid him? would he want to go to the party despite this boy being there?

ds was very upset. he cried at the time and when i collected him he was ever so upset and down, to make matters worse i had to go to work so i couldnt even see that he was ok.
the boy is bullying ds. ds tries to get away from him."he's not my friend" or "I dont like him" when he told me about all of the incidents i told him not to play with him "I dont mum, he just comes."
I know punches and knock etc happens all the time at school. ther is 1 boy and they have a love hate relationship. they're friends and tyhen not friends ALL the time, even in one day. also he has play fights with many kids... boys being boys and all that. when i hear the odd name i dont take to much notice but i have heard this name over and over again.

champs - I really sympathise. My ds comes home at least once a week with stories of "X" punching, or hitting, or tripping him or pushing him over. Our problem is it's one of the teacher's sons whose doing the bullying. Today for instance ds tells me X punched him in the ribs because he wanted to play with what ds had. Staff do nothing about it.

Definitely pursue it with the school...I hope your little boy is feeling okay and not too upset, bless him.

As an aside, does anyone agree with teaching your kids never to hit others first / pre-emptively, but that it is okay to hit back in self defence?....after all the law allows for 'reasonable force' in self defence situations.

This probably won't be popular in pc mumsnet circles, but when my dd / ds are old enough to encounter this sort of problem I will teach them that violence is very wrong, but 'reactive violence' whilst far from ideal, is permissible if attacked first. Otherwise I personally feel that a child can be a continuing target for bullies. I was never bullied at school, the school bully had a pop at me once but when I retaliated in kind she never tried again.

Handlemecarefully, I think it depends on the age of the child. I have a constant dilemma about this one, because I agree with you, kids do have to fight back (physically) in order to demonstrate that they are not a good victim, but when they are very young, I think it is a very confusing message for them - they can't really distinguish between self-defence and a pre-emptive strike! I tell DS (5) that he should tell the teacher if someone hits him for something. At a certain age though, they do need to fight back because although all schools nowadays have formal anti-bullying policies, it looks from anecdotal evidence that in the real world they are not put into practice. I've heard countless tales of kids being told by teachers to "toughen up" when they are bullied; so how is that accomplished, if not by fighting back?

thanks jampot, what a horrible situation, and the fact that the teachers do nothing will just make the boy think he can continue to hurt your son.
handle-- i used to tell my boy to tell teacher since that got him nowhere, his dad told him to hit them back and i couldn't tell him otherwise as i was so fed up. infact i told the teacher dh told him to hit back and i will be agreeing with him.
i do make sure he knows it's not acceptable to hit first

have decided to take ds1 to school tommorow as i dont want him missing out on school and trip any more than he has to. Will tell class teacher that in no certain terms must boy or ds to be together. I am a bit worried as they are going on trip, what if boy does something and they are out of school?!
do you think i am being heavy handed by wanting boy to go to another class? was thinking of asking other parents if they have heard anything about boy bullying their kids. ds says he has hurt other kids. dont want boys parents to feel bad as he has had to move class already I am trying to think from their point of view

Definitely ask other parents. He might be the son from hell.... We've had one or two at nursery ......

I would be careful about asking for him to move class until you find out exactly what went on. You have to establish what happened before you can make any decisions/requests regarding your son or this boy.

hi jimjams, i know what happened, teacher and ds told me! do you mean about other incidents? I think i didn't explain the bit in the first post: "she kept going on saying ds1 and boy always does this or that and ds1 says this or that" this was about a different time when they were on the carpet, had argument when they should have been quiet.

carla, will do.

btw jimjams, are you a teacher?

It sounded from your first post as if the teacher was saying that the 2 boys are always winding each other up and it could have been either boy that ended up with a nosebleed iyswim. Also I'm really surprised that the school haven't taken the whole incident more seriously if there was no provocation- which is why I thought you needed to find out exactly what happened- and why it happened.

I'm not a teacher (well not quite - used to teach 19 year olds) but I'm the mother of an autistic boy (non-verbal) who went through a pinching/scratching stage (luckily short lived) so I have lots of experience of how these things are usually handled. Luckily my son has full time 1:1 support so its easy to be clear about what has happened in any incident.

you just sounded so calming and sensible, kind of like a teacher.

did your son do the hitting etc or someone to him?

He's not aggressive - complete oppsite in fact way way way too passive. He doesn't get hit as he is constantly supervised (literally all day long). He went through a phase of pinching because he liked to look inside people's mouths (and young children scream if they are pinched). At least that's what he seemed to be doing. Anyway a behavioural management strategy was put in place and that stopped within 2 weeks. He occasionally pinches ds2, dh, my mum or his LSA- but again for reaction (which he doesn't get now). Only adults though. Touch wood the behaviour has gone.

had meeting with headteacher. went well, she called both boys to her office when we left to discuss it. she explained some of the boys history with me and I told her if this is the end of it then i'll be happy with just a talk to him but if it is on going something else must be done.

jimjams-- would never have thought about seeing inside of mouth by pinching, I have found that many autistic children are extremely clever, they have such talents and gifts, it's just that they cant express themselves much.