giving babies small amounts of alcohol

[jacksma]

My dp, ds and I went for lunch with some friends who have a 8 month old ds this w/e. DUring lunch the mother of this baby told me that they often give her small amounts of beer or wine (which she apparently likes less than beer) on their fingers. I assumed they were joking and laughed but soon after this an argument ensued, wherein I was accused of responding to middle class pressure to feel guilty about doing almost anything against the mother malitia doctrine on child rearing (jtheir words) and that alcohol is a "societal bonus" and that to deny children small amounts of it is unfair and exclusive. My friend also said that she had been given martini on her dummy and that had done her no harm. They are scientists and so started saying that I was stupid to think this was harmful as the liver can well cope with alcohol in small doses (in fairness they are talking finger sucking amounts). I still feel disturbed by the conversation, not because I feel what thewy are doing is deeply harmful but because I feel angry at being criticised for my own feeling that alcohol is a societal problem and that, though my ds is likely to drink in the future, there is ABSOLUTELY no need to give him drugs at the age of 15months or, in fact, for many years to come...What do others think about this issue?

Although it is odd to give to a baby my bf mum recommended watered down gin for colic and I was so desperate for sleep I did it!!!!!!!Still can't believe I did though but he slept all night after that and I am not sure if it was a coincidence or not.I am not recommending it btw!

it bet it was a miniscule amount though

echoing paulaplumpbottom, how did you reply to your friends' jacksma? and how did this conversation arise in the first place?

There is alcohol in bread, so it's really unlikely there are any eight-month-olds getting no alcohol at all.

That being said, I'm confused by the idea of alcohol as a "societal bonus". Isn't sex a societal bonus? If anything is? (But then, I'm always confused by the attitude to alcohol in this country.) I do know one BLW person who let her kid have whatever she was having, including tiny sips of alcohol. And I can see a case for that.

What boggles me even more is, why give her it if she doesn't like it?

In the UK it's illegal to give alcohol to a child under five for any reason (including "medicinal")

barking imo

I won't argue with with the whole French-style watered-down-wine-for-older-kids attitude, but having witnessed the disgusting spectacle of an otherwise fraitfully naice family getting their 8yo dd drunk on champagne because 'it's Christmas and we're in France' I have Views on alcohol in childhood.

NQC, surely no alcohol would survive the baking process? So it wouldn't be alcoholic as an end product anyway. Never heard of alcohol in bread tbh, do you mean to do with yeast?

Alcohol evaporates really quickly when heated.

I'd think that, too, Edam. Here is a paper from a medical journal about it, saying that bread has from 0.04 to 1.9% alcohol in it. The study dates from 1926, though. I'll try to find something more solid.

sometimes when bread is off or out of date you can smell it

Thats hardly any at all, but you are right you can smell it.

"However we do also give DD a drop on a finger two or three times a week."

Out of interest, why do you do that calm?

They're freaky weirdos. Shun them.

Pointydog - Because she's curious about what we're drinking and I personally see no harm in such a small amount. (honestly is miniscule) Her French cousins were brought up with the same attitude, and they've reached their 18th birthday completely uninterested in alcohol (quite the opposite of me and all my 18 year old friends at the time, 15 in fact...)

unli.

Oops, DD thinks I spend too much time on MN and pressed a button. Sorry... I didn't realise this big space had got there...

I used to have a tiny glass of wine every sunday from the age of 5 when my mum and dad opened a bottle with the meal. However I still binge drank as a teenager and when stressed often turn to the bottle!

It's just so much a culture in West Coast Scotland (binge drinking). We've decided, as parents, not to make it a absolute NO-NO, only for ADULTS etc. That's not to say she can have it anytime and everytime! Just not forbidden. If we can make it a fairly non-event and less of a big thing, then she hasn't got that to rebel about in our drinks cabinet when she's 14. However, we'll see, and we'll deal with that when we get there.
For us it's just not a big deal - she has these drops of wine, but also has four cups of water and two cups of milk a day, heaps of fruit and everything we're eating for the three meals. She's a happy, healthy girl.
Please don't think that I think it's some sort of right - that's bollocks too (see original message of thread).
Anyway, Cheers...

Hasn't her curiosity been satisfied after two or three times a week! She's got a taste for it .

I agree in part with your Scottish binge drinking thing and not banning it etc etc.

Initially I just laughed and said well you are crazed, as I assumed they were joking, then they got cross, as I assume they felt judged. I said that I thought it was wierd to give your baby's unadulterated body a toxin as it was completely unnecessary to do so. I then said the point of trying to vary a baby's diet was to create a wide palate and by introducing alcohol you were encouraging a taste for it and when my friend said the thing about martini I said that her mother had clearly created that taste for her as she is a big drinker and perhaps there was a link - I was fairly unconfrontational though as I could see it was just a very different attitude to alcohol - they just think it is a great thing and ignore the fact that it is often a nightmare. I don't think letting kids have a taste of what you are drinking (as long as it is wine or beer) is a bad thing as they are then being introduced to drinking in a civilised way, which is clearly better than having it barred from view at all times but I don't think a baby requires that lesson really as they are unable to learn it in any way.

The thing about people in France and Italy etc...having a healthy attitude to drink in comparison to Northern Europeans amy also be true but it is a falacy to think alcohol doesn't cause problemms for those cultures. France has the hjighest numbers of deaths from alcohol related liver failure in Europe and alcoholism is rife all over the world...

an absolute. Haven't read further comments...

jacksma, I see - so the mother likes a tipple? Do you actually think that the couple were just plain drunk when they told your their theory!

I do this to my one year old

If I'm drinking she sticks her hand in and taste it - whether it is water, apply juice or wine

So far she likes wine, beer and gin and tonic and wants to dip her hand in again

I draw the line at ONE hand-dip, I don't pour her a glass or anything

I also breastfeed when I am quite drunk

apply juice lol

I also post when I am quite drunk

I agree about the whole 'baby' thing. Our DD however is 2, and we know just how droppy our drops are.

Yes, also there is a huge problem in France with alcohol, but it's not exactly the same as in Scotland. The attitudes towards social drinking are different. You don't go out to pubs and see people trying to compete here to get drunk. I haven't yet, on a Saturday night seen a teenage girl lying at the side of the road with her face in her vomit.

In the end, we all decide which rules are going to be absolute and what we're going to be liberal about, usually depending on where we're brought up, and how, whether we grew up hating our parents' choices, or otherwise it seems - it also seems, much of the time, that these decisions are pretty arbitrary.

I include ourselves in that. You get the recycle friends who at least once a day show you how you could do better with the boxes in the kitchen, who get angry about the waste of the western world, but who leave the fridge door open for five minutes every time they prepare anything which involves opening the fridge door (huge environmental impact). You get the Blair/Bush haters angry about the weapons and motives lies, who are quite happy for their children to say to their teacher they were sick.

Sorry, high horse to absolutely nowhere. I'm not angry, and these are really difficult to write without sounding angry.