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Original poster

Is any issue up for debate???

37 replies

Ready · 05/01/2007 11:14

I posted the following on another thread, but moved it here as it is probably a more appropriate place for it...

Are there rules on what issues are up for debate?
Is any issue debatable?
Is it ok to debate the decisions that others make even if we have no actual experience of their situation? Is it wrong to scrutinise their choices?
What makes one issue debatable and another off limits?
The reason I ask this, on another thread yesterday (about a topic I had thought a great deal about that morning. I knew that I wasn't entirely comfortable with it, but wondered what right I had to question their decision)... someone said that - the subject wasn't really debatable - which got me wondering...

What are your thoughts?

OP posts:

sunnywong · 05/01/2007 11:16

what was the subject?

flutterbee · 05/01/2007 11:18

I personally think that every subject is up for debate. Whether anyone wishes to debate the subject with you is another issue all together.

Caligula · 05/01/2007 11:19

IMO every issue is up for debate and of course we're allowed to scrutinise the actions of others even if we have no experience.

Having said that, people with experience of a certain situations will in some cases, have more credibility in arguing about something just because they know more about it. Common sense really. I'm not going to get into an argument about nuclear physics with a nuclear physicist, or Jainist theology with a Jainist - I know sweet FA about it.

mellowma · 05/01/2007 11:20

Message withdrawn

mytwopenceworth · 05/01/2007 11:20

i would say yes, anyone is free to put forward anything. but - if you put something into a public place, you invite allcomers! simple as that.

you post - you get replies. if you are not prepared to accept the wide range of opinions you may get or the fact you may not like what you hear, don't post.

mellowma · 05/01/2007 11:20

Message withdrawn

SenoraPartridge · 05/01/2007 11:34

sometimes people with no experience of something have a better insight than those who deal with it every day.

Original poster

Ready · 05/01/2007 11:36

The subject was about the parents who chose to keep their little disabled child a baby forever. I didn't actually post on the thread, as I didn't feel I had anything worth adding to the debate.

There was a bit between 2 MNers, one said "there is no point in discussing an issue on here any more, when all possible debate is stomped on so hard. And anyone who questions the "correct" line must be evil and uncaring." and it received a reply of "What's there to 'debate', someone else's decision? Or, in general, a parent's control over their profoundly disabled child's life? All I said is that I don't see how the former issue is debatable, b/c I'm not them, thank f*ck, I'm not in their situation, and I don't know them personally."

---- What started started me thinking is not really what I am getting at to be honest... It was more the basics of debate - when is it wrong to debate something? or should anything be up for debate regardless of how sensitive the issue is??? Do you have to have experience in something to have an opinion or a question??

IYSWIM??

OP posts:

HappyDaddy · 05/01/2007 11:37

I think the only issue not up for debate is whether reality tv is a massive pile of shite.

Jimjams2 · 05/01/2007 11:40

The person concerned didn't say the topic wasn't debatable- she said the parents decision (without being privvy to the things that led up to it) wasn't debatable.

The trouble with that particular topic (I'm assuming btw that you mean the profounfdly disabled child thread) is that that level of disability is way beyond most people's comprehension of what disability means. Unless you experience it, by caring for individuals who have prfound and multiple learning difficulties, or at the very least by spending some time around them, and observing them, I think it is very difficult to have a valid opinion. It is too far removed from the general public's reality. Sure have a debate about it, but read posts like those by Christie and Giddy who have experience to understand why for example suggesting that the operation has been done to conveience is parents is so unbelievable offensive and wide of the mark.

I do spend time around prfoundly disabled children and I have learned that without knowing all the details of a particular case it is impossible to have an informed opinion. There are too many variables. I also recognise that ehtics committees generally err on the side of caution- and this will have been given thorough consideration by the medical profession. People involved in her care, will have been consulted and will have given their opinions.

mellowma · 05/01/2007 11:43

Message withdrawn

SenoraPartridge · 05/01/2007 11:51

those are good points, jimjams, but they don't make the whole topic undebateable. I know exactly the kind of disabilities they're talking about, having worked with severely disabled adults but actually I think I understand more as a mother than I do as an ex-care worker if you see what I mean.

WigWamBam · 05/01/2007 11:51

I would think that any topic is open for debate, but openly discussing the decisions and actions of one particular person or family who aren't on the board to explain or defend their actions needs to be dealt with in a far more sensitive way than simply discussing a topic, and in some cases I think it's fair to say that maybe those actions shouldn't be debated.

The topic in question was a very specific case, and while I see no harm in discussing some of the broader questions that might arise from that case, it seems wrong to be making judgments on a couple whose situation none of us can ever hope to understand, and who aren't in a position to defend and explain their decisions.

Original poster

Ready · 05/01/2007 11:52

Ok... Let's be clear now - I am not having a go at anyone, I just paraphrased what they said to roughly explain how I got to thinking about what is debatable and what isn't

JimJams2, I didn't want this to be a discussion on that particular issue... that was just to explain how I got to this question. I am not for a second questioning those parents rights to do anything... I would have posted on that thread if I felt I had anything to say...

Sometimes on MN certain things are debated like SAHM for example, and people who have no experience of it still express opinion... I was just wondering if the fact that something is a very sensitive issue means that people shy away from expressing an opinion and is that the right thing to do?

OP posts:

SenoraPartridge · 05/01/2007 11:55

But one argument (and I'm not saying I agree with it) is that what those parents have done is NEVER right unless the health of the child is directly affected. No, we don't know all the specific details, but we know enough to spark a debate surely?

Jimjams2 · 05/01/2007 12:01

Well I agree with WWB. Sure debate the topic- but in that case the thread was about one particular family's decision- which perhaps isn't so debatable.

SP - I think the problem if people have no experience of that level of disability is a) they don't really understand what it means in reality- they don't understand the reality of having an adult with the development of a 3 month old - of how that presents, of what it means for the people responsible for caring and b) they often don't really understand that the parents love that child every bit as much as any mother loves her "normal" child. Actually I think b) is more of a problem. And understanding that is central to the argument really.

Agh wish I could find ghosty's description of a funeral her friend attended (for a profoundly disabled child). It really summed all that up beautifully.

Jimjams2 · 05/01/2007 12:03

But the health of the child was affected- in terms of lying on her breasts (and therefore getting breast infections), keeping clean during mentruation when you can never stand up or care for yourself, risks from breast cancer etc- all that will have been considered by the people responsible for carrying out the operation.

ludaloo · 05/01/2007 12:05

I think a good debate is brilliant...it makes you learn a great deal more about a situation, and you also get to find out about different view points to your own.
If you are really interested about a certain topic it can be very very fascinating.

Therefore debates are great...and why not debate about anything you want to...someone else is bound to have an opinion on it..

Debates get ugly when people make them personal and blow them off course....you stop debating a subject and start arguing...
Internet forums are therefore not the best places in the world to have a serious debate as you can't hear the tone of a persons voice, you can't see their expressions and you have to think about exactly what you are saying very very carefully otherwise you get mobbed!!!!!!!!!!

hunkermunker · 05/01/2007 12:08

I think this is a hard subject to debate, because it's such a specific thing. Nobody would ever suggest it was a good plan for a NT child to have this sort of operation - again, that's not up for debate really, either - is it?

I was thinking about this little girl yesterday, and I have literally no opinion on it, because I cannot comprehend what it's like to be a parent to a child with these needs. All I feel is sympathy for them and the situation they are in - I'm sorry if that sounds patronising, it's not meant to.

pretzel · 05/01/2007 12:08

thank you ludaloo... that is exactly what I had been thinking! Debate is important in life I think.

Again, I was not expressing opinion on the disabled child's parents. It was merely a 'vessel' that got me to thinking about the 'wider issue' of debating.

SenoraPartridge · 05/01/2007 12:09

Actually I think some parents do love their severely disabled children less. But that really shouldn't be up for debate, and I don't think it about these parents.

pretzel · 05/01/2007 12:10

sorry, changed name mid discussion - oops

paulaplumpbottom · 05/01/2007 12:13

I also think debate is good. I also believe that any subject worth debating is personal and sensitive to somebody and you can't walk on eggshells all the time.

Jimjams2 · 05/01/2007 12:14

well, some parents love one of their normally developing children more than their other normally developing child. I'm talking about the (I think) very prevalent view that a disabled child is somehow less lovable than a non disabled child. That they are only ever a burden.

Original poster

Ready · 05/01/2007 12:14

Hunker, that is why I didn't post on the other thread, as I couldn't even begin to imagine how hard those decisions must have been.

But I would not suggest that others refrain from expressing their opinions on it, I feel that so long as your opinions are not an attack on them, then what you have to say may well have a place in the wider issue.

Changed name back - I really should stop wasting time today sorry to confuse anyone.

OP posts:

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