Old Houses with bathrooms downstairs - Help I'm clueless!

[tatcity]

Have been to visit the house I'm buying today which is being rewired before we move in. (1908 semi with entrance at side) I visited exactly the same house as mine 2 doors down which has been developed by a builder to have a nose - and love what they've done.

Anyone else got experience of knocking a kitchen through to old bathroom - to create a bigger kitchen - and then moving a bathroom upstairs (without losing a whole bedroom). The builder I saw today had changed the staircase and added a landing to make the rooms accessible (as before 3rd bed was off 2nd bed IYSWIM). This meant that there were still 3 beds - 1 of which had been made smaller to accommodate small bathroom.

Hope I'm not babbling - and that I'm making vague sense. Just wondered if anyone out there had experience of any similar work - as this is quite a common problem in old houses (ie. downstairs bathroom). I know I know its going to messy - but think its the answer to turn it into a "family" home. Thank you!

Not very helpful, but we are thinking about doing this, our house actually had a bathroom upstairs and they moved it downstairs in the 70s!

We are concerned about the effect on the value of the house because we would have to sacrifice a whole bedroom for the bathroom which would change it to a 2 bed.

I love the idea of having a nice big kitchen, good luck!

Watch out for drains being put in correctly so that they don't undermine foundations... this was a problem on some of the houses we looked at that had been built ~1890 and had indoor bathrooms added later.

We knocked the first part... knocked a wall through to make kitchen+almost outside WC into 1, then put another WC in under the stairs. But we already had a bathroom upstairs. ARe any of the walls you need to move strucutral? That's what matters.

Our last house had a bathroom downstairs and I'm not aware that it affected the value of the property. All houses in that road had the same design and were much sought after.

JennH - how come you'd have to lose a whole bedroom? This is what I thought we'd have to do until I saw what these builders had done today!

Could I suggest at this point hiring an architect. Being one myself, I am a little biased, but would you do legal work yourself, or accounting or medical diagnoses? An architect can tell you the best way to rearrange the house to work for you and make sure that the builder actually does it that way. Their fees are well worth the results, in looks, practicality and money saved on construction.

Both our (old) houses have had bathrooms right in the middle of the house, ie., no outside walls. Thus you don't lose a bedroom, your bathroom is sort of built over the stairs. In our first house this was described as a bulkhead bathroom. The downside is no window, so no natural light, or ventilation (we have extractor fans) but the upside is the bathroom is never cold, no-one can hear you singing in the bath, and we still have decent sized bedrooms! Agree with sofia, you need an architect, but it can be done.

Could you not just have another chat with the builder that has already done it - maybe offer to buy his architect plans off him - if he has already done it and you like what you see why reinvent the wheel - maybe he would give you a quote for the actual work too.
My parents considered doing similar several years ago. They plans moved the stairs so they went up in front of the front door whereas they previously went across the house (the stair space and pantry went into the lounge). The previous stairwell and walk in cupboard upstairs made part of the bathroom with about 3 feet taken off Bedroom 2 length, about the same was taken off bedroom 2's width to make a corridor to bed 3 (bed 2 ended up being about 8 ft square whereas it was originally about 13 ft square.
In the end they didn't have the work done - neighbours did though and it looked good.

One tip you need to bear in mind when relocating a bathroom in an older house - it is apparently against building regs to have a macerator loo (one of those ones with a narrow bore pipe and a grinder box to ahem, process the waste) as your ONLY lavatory. You must have one loo connected to the standard sewerage system.
Some friends of ours have recently moved to a lovely house where the bathroom was relocated and for plumbing convenience the only loo had a macerator. Three days after moving in, macerator goes phut big-time. They are now in the process of moving the bathroom back to its original location, an expense they hadn't bargained for. Now, if their vendor had used an architect...definitely good advice from Sofia!

Thanks all for the advice. Its definitely possible. I don't mind having a bathroom with no window in, but good point about the macerator. I guess SophiaAmes you are right. I just find it a little bit scary - the idea of hiring an architect. I did look some up on the web, but all their projects seemed really massive and out of our range. (We won't be extending the house as such just rejigging it a bit - maybe extending into the loft at some point.) I know this is probably a misguided view and hopefully you will be able to advise me otherwise! Can you hire an architect just to come round and give you ideas or do you have to hire them to draw up plans and project manage? Thanks.

We did EXACTLY what you are planning tatcity - our new bathroom is partly on the old landing and partly in what used to be the first of two interconnecting bedrooms at the back of the house so we still have 3 beds. We left the staircase as was, and the new bathroom has a slightly angled wall onto the landing. There is also a new corridor to the bedroom (does any of this make any sense to you?). Anyway, it's small but we are v pleased with it. We do have a Saniflo (macerator) which is a bit noisy but fine and we also have a downstairs loo that was already there when we moved in. Our solution to the window thing was to put in a skylight which is perfect - lots of light and lots of privacy. It is messy and infuriating and my tip is do the bathroom upstairs first, before you touch the kitchen, so you never have a time without a bath. You will need one with all the mess and annoyance and disruption! Also, a good kitchen planner is vital. I just couldn't envisage the new, bigger kitchen and have never got it right - even now, after much frustrating tinkering with layout. Take your time and don't rush - you'll live with the results a long time. I think looking at your neighbours houses is a brilliant idea. See if you can see what other people have done as well as your neighbour - esp to the kitchen.

Aloha - thanks! I think I understand what you're saying - sounds good. I don't care what size the new bathroom is as long as its upstairs!!! I'm going to knock on both neighbours doors on Friday when I pop round to check on the electrician and hope I get invited in! I can tell the one house has had the bathroom moved - it just seems a bit nosy doesn't it? I don't mean to be cheeky, but can you tell me roughly how much the upstairs bit cost? As I have no idea at all if its even within our budget! Many thanks.

Aloha - sorry - did you use an architect?

RIBA, the Royal Institute of British Architects, can recommend local architects who handle projects of a similar size to yours. And IME architects are happy to tell you whether your project really needs them or not (I had a few round for bathroom in my old house). Also if you can hang on once a year RIBA takes part in Shelter week, where for a donation to the homeless charity, an architect will come round and take a look for you.

Tatcity, really hard to help with costs as we had SO much done at once - new roof, replastering everywhere (we took the woodchip off and the plaster came with it), windows repaired, lots of redecorating etc etc...I would guess around 7K plus the costs of the bathsuite, but that did include the skylight. I'd really recommend one. We didn't use an architect, I saw one during Shelter week as eddm suggests, but he was really useless, could work out how to do it at all but I do think he was particularly and unfortunately hopeless. Sofia wouldn't be like at all I think a good architect like her may have suggested some things to make the design work better - eg setting it back a bit further and maybe even putting it on the other side (iyswim). But if you are really happy with your neighbour's design, and you have an intelligent builder, why not ask your neighbour if you can show your builder what you have done and ask him to copy it. I think people find it flattering that you like what they've done with their house and enjoy meeting nice new neighbours.

thanks Eddm and Aloha - good tips. Meeting recommended builder there Friday to ask him to quote for carbon copy of next door and then also a less disruptive version! Thanks for all your advice - its really helped. I'm not the only mad person who puts up with all this potential work then! We just couldn't afford to buy a house already "done" as it would have cost another 60k!!!

Do get a skylight. Makes so much difference and lovely to look at the sky while in the bath, esp if rare blue sky day.

Is there not a loft space above your bathroom then? Didn't quite work out how you got a skylight in???? Sounds lovely though - you could have watched the eclipse last night from your bath!!

tatcity, where are you. There are a few firms (the one I work for included) that are starting to do more a la carte architectural work for people just like you. The fees are on an hourly basis for consults and then you can purchase as much or as little as you want in the way of services.
Jaybee, architect's plans are copywritten and it would be illegal for a builder to copy them for you. However, if tatcity's neighbor's work was done without an architect's plans, then it would be ok for her to have the buider just do the same thing at her house. But tatcity, do talk to your neighbors and tell them that that's what you are planning to do and make sure that they really like the builder.

SophiaAmes - the house we will be moving to is in Berkshire, UK. Thanks for your advice and let me have any names of firms if you know of any in the area. Good to know that some firms would be willing to do things like this as I always felt they were were more for really big projects!