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Original poster

Police want to cauction dp (kelly1978)

24 replies

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 11:17

Lots of people have posted on my other thread, but it is getting very long, and now we face a decision.
His sol has jsut been in touch saying that the police want to cauction dp. The solicitor is saying that he shouldn't take the cauction, as he has not commited abh. Dp is saying he doesn't want the stress or risk of going to court. We're both worried though, what limitations ss will place if dp does accept a cauction. Don't know what to do.

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Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 11:19

caution! I really should read before posting!

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QueenEagle · 26/09/2006 11:19

Oh Kelly, what an awful situation for yOU. Just wanted you to know I was thinking about you even though I don't have any good advice to give. Really sorry you're going through this.

QueenPeaHead · 26/09/2006 11:30

a caution is a criminal record.

the police use them a lot if they don't think they have a good enough case for going to court. you could see it as a way of persuading (or blackmailing) innocent people to plead semi-guilty because they are terrified of the threat of court action, and because they don't properly understand that a caution gives them a criminal record.

I would say that he should NOT take the caution, and hope that the police don't take him to court for lack of evidence. He should really take his solicitor's advice.

Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 11:36

the sol did say originally that he didn't think there was enough evidence.

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QueenPeaHead · 26/09/2006 11:39

I'd tell your dp to be brave and stand firm.
Difficult, I know. But the fact that he has refused a caution (which some would say was an "easy option") may well also be viewed well by SS (I'm not sure about this, someone else might know)

Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 11:48

mm, I think i need to talk to ss as well. I think you are right, jsut not sure if has the strength to fight it. He has been really depressed in any case.

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Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 12:45

any more thoughts?
dp is wavering towards declining it now.

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fattiemumma · 26/09/2006 12:49

i havent read the other thread (sorry) but QPH is absolutly right.

if he hasn't done anything he shouldn't acceot a caution.

by accepting the caution you are effectivly pleadingguilty to the offence and accepting a caution as your punishment.

ABH is very serious crime and if they had any evedence then a caution would most certainly not be on the table as a suitable recompence for that crime.

Listen to your Sol...thats what your paying him for,

ScummyMummy · 26/09/2006 12:52

Hi again Kelly. I agree with QPH that dp should take his solicitor's advice. The solicitor is the one who knows what all this means legally. From social services point of view I would imagine that what they are after is dp frankly facing what he has done and working to change that, not accepting a caution for something he has not. But I am not a social worker (yet) remember and i have no direct experience of working in statutory child protection. So I can't say how it might be viewed from experience let alone how your particular social workers will view things. BUT BUT BUT- I agree with your own advice- talk talk talk to them! Ask what they think dp should do, tell them how you see things, discuss what you are worried about, what you would like to happen in optimum circumstances. In short- try and build up a working relationship with them if you can- and I would bet money that you can. If the social worker is really not approachable ( and i hope this is not the case) talk to the health visitor- she can liaise with the social workers if necessary and will be at the conference. Trust in yourself- you are a caring mum, you come across well and you are someone that they want to engage and help and work in partnership with to ensure that the kids are safe and well. Good luck. Don't panic. You are muddling through just fine, you know.

TaraPalmerTomkinsonsNose · 26/09/2006 12:59

agrew tieh others
but be prepared it may go to trial

cautiosn are a criminal record and woudl be held aginst dp if he were ever in court agin

shimmy21 · 26/09/2006 13:15

Kelly - wanted to say how sorry I am for you here and so much sympathy but I am going to play devils advocate a little and you can ignore me as you see fit.

Reading your other thread I'm sorry to say it really does sound as if your dp has got something to be guilty about. You have admitted that you don't feel it is safe to leave him with the children, that they are scared of him, that there have been unexplained bruises and allegations (from very little children who quite frankly shouldn't be able to make up something like this) and that your dp has been heavy-handed. At first you were convinced in his innocence but it seems a little as if you are not letting yourself admit to the extent of the problem.

In the light of all this it seems that caution is getting him off very lightly. It might make him realise that he really must do something about his behaviour and not just make the right noises to the police and SS to get back into your home. I know nothing about the legal side of things but I do know that very occasionally unscrupulous lawyers can encourage clients to fight cases where there is little chance of winning because they have their own fees in mind.

I think you need to be deeply honest with yourself and ask yourself to what extent you want dp not to accept the caution because you desperately want him to be innocent and not because he really is.

Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 13:16

hi cod. If it did all go really wrong and he got convicted, do u have any idea of what would happen?

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TaraPalmerTomkinsonsNose · 26/09/2006 13:17

of cruelty?
sos that the charge?

Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 13:29

shimmy I know what you are saying. I think I have faced up to the extent of the problem, last weekend when I spoke to the children, and to him; I think I got to the bottom of it. They were not lying at all, I foudn that out. There were different allegations, and some were misunderstandings, and some weren't. I felt incredibly guilty for disbelieving them, and you are right children don't make up things like this. I don't want to go into all the details, but nothing the children have said indicates abh. It is so wrong that they are scared of him, and that is why I don't trust him. I don't want to leave them in a situation where they would be scared. That doesn't make him a criminal though, jsut a shockingly bad parent. He has been waay too hard on them. I've been a bad parent too, for not seeing it all, for not acting sooner. We've both made mistakes and want to work through this.

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Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 13:29

abh, on two of them

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MarsLady · 26/09/2006 13:30

Kelly. I don't think that he should accept the caution.

Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 13:33

sm I read your post and called my sw! I'm very glad I did, it has made me happier. Thye have basically said that whatever happens with the police will have no bearing on their decisions. They have also told me that int he report and recomendations for the cph on thurs that they are recomending that dd and ds1 are placed on the register, but not the dts, and that we are given lots of help to rebuild things, even to the extent of advice for simple day to day stuff so that we can get through this.

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MarsLady · 26/09/2006 13:35

That's fantastic news kelly. I'm sure once your DP has been through the anger management/parenting classes etc the older 2 will come off of the register. Hold your head girl! Proud of you.

shimmy21 · 26/09/2006 13:39

well done Kelly

It sounds as though you really are doing the best you can fro your dcs.

ScummyMummy · 26/09/2006 15:52

That is really excellent news, Kelly.

TaraPalmerTomkinsonsNose · 26/09/2006 16:49

abh?
hold on will look. how seriosu were the injuries?

LaidbackinAsia · 26/09/2006 17:12

Kelly - If there is enough evidence and your DP goes to court, it could be heard at Magistrates or go to Crown Court as it is an offence that is triable at both places. If he pleads not guilty, there will be a trial (after several adjournments - probably).

If he gets convicted, it is very likely that the court will request a Pre-Sentence Report - which is prepared by a Probation Officer. They will take into consideration lots of issues, eg. past convictions, circumstances of the offence, remorse, background, risk of re-offending, social circumstances etc.. and make a recommendation to the court for sentencing. I have known people be sentenced to prison sentences and community sentences for this kind of offence and it is really down to the individual circumstances of each case. \hope this helps.

Agree with previous posters - a caution IS an admission of guilt - and while it will clear matters up more quickly - it could come back to bite your DP in the future .

Original poster

Kelly1978 · 26/09/2006 18:17

the coming back to bite bit is what he is now worrying about.

cod, bruising in the form of grip marks where he held them too tightly.

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Original poster

Kelly1978 · 27/09/2006 13:52

dp has jsut called after leaving the police station. He accepted the caution

When he got there, they told him that the charge would be common assault on ds for the incident with the bed/tantrum. They have photos of the bruising caused and interview from ds etc, so I guess that is the only one they had evidence enough on to charge for. I believe that common assault has to be force with intent, but his sol said it would be 50/50 as to whether he could prove that it wasn't intentional. This seemed too big a risk, and although the sol was still advising against takign the caution it would come down to the mag on the day, and he felt it was too big a risk to take. I'm glad that we don't have the stress of a court case to face, though a bit sad that he has been cautioned and I really hope it doens't come back to bite him!

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