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Original poster

Advice on how to deter rapists

79 replies

Janstar · 02/04/2004 19:05

A friend just emailed me with this:

Metropolitan Police Issued
This Newsletter October 2003 MUST BE READ

Through a Rapist?s Eyes

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

1 The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail or other hairstyle that can be easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Woman with short hair are not common targets.
2 The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for woman whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.
3 They also look for women on their mobile phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking, because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.
4 The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 05.00 and 08.30 am.
5 The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman quickly mover her to a second location where they don?t have to worry about getting caught.
6 Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3 ? 5 year sentence, but rape with a weapon is 15 ? 20 years.
7 If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realise that going after you isn?t worth it because it will be time-consuming.
8 These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you?re not worth it.
9 Several defence mechanisms he taught us are: if someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in a lift or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like ?what time is it?? or make general small talk, ?I can?t believe it is so cold out here, we?re in for a bad winter?. Now you?ve seen their face and could identify them in a line-up, you lose appeal as a target.
10 If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell ?stop? or ?STAY BACK?. Most of the rapists talked to said they?d leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

FORWARD THIS TO EVERY WOMAN YOU KNOW!
IT?S SIMPLE STUFF BUT IT COULD SAVE LIVES.

OP posts:
jampot · 03/04/2004 13:53

A friend of mine who is a nurse when working in MIle End Hospital (I think) was told that if you are grabbed from behind you should lean forward (if you can) and pretend to vomit!!!! Apparently it's a common reaction to let go.

stace · 03/04/2004 15:46

IMO everyone should bear in mind that what ever you think you may do or whatever you may wish to do if god forbid you are ever in in the awful situation. Fear terror and all soughts of other emotions and feelings and take over and make you completely powerless to act in any way that you may think is correct.

I am not saying that any of this advice is not helpful just that it needs to be balanced with the knowledge that in real life we just cannot know how we would react and therefore we should not set ourselves up with possibly unreasonable expections of our own actions. If you know what i me!!

Big hugs to those that have suffered

grumpyzebra · 03/04/2004 19:02

As someone who has been jumped & groped a few times (multiple countries), and always fought them off, and usually chased them down the street shouting afterwards, I really think fighting them off is the right way to go. I suppose BK is right that they may hurt you worse, but I always thought... even if they had a gun (because I'm a Yank so not an unrealistic prospect where I grew up), better they shot me on the open street where someone would hear and phone for an ambulence, then somewhere private where no one would find me before I bled to death.

bossykate · 03/04/2004 19:30

from what i've read on this subject, it depends on the pathology of the attacker how much good fighting back will do you - i've read that it will just excite certain rapists further. i do believe it could be dangerous to do so on some occasions. it may be entirely the correct resonse in other situations.

the other reason i object to this advice is that i believe it places the responsibility on the woman to an unacceptable degree - if someone doesn't fight back, because they are too frightened or just taken by surprised and overpowered, will it be interpreted as culpable on their part? i'm afraid that would be the case.

of the other points - (1) and (2) sound like a salacious porn fantasy to me i'm afraid. (3) makes sense. (4) i think women should beware at all times of day. (5) well the met might know if this is true but the writer of this hoax email - who knows what their qualifications are for opining on this? (6) sounds unlikely - probably more to do with the pathology of the attacker - also object on the same grounds as (5). (7) GRRRR (8) As per (5) above. (9) & (10) maybe, this sounds like things i've heard from police officers before, but again what are the author's credentials for pronouncing on this?

i think women feel guilty enough without this nonsense - "if only i hadn't had a ponytail and was carrying an umbrella this wouldn't have happened..." pah!

kiwisbird · 03/04/2004 19:33

I'd rather know that I fought like a tiger and tried than to know that I had made it easy. Likesomeone else said you would never know what you were capable of when in such a situation, I really surprised myself as I jump at the slightest noise and scream and run at moths... I still now cannot believe I reacted so violently, it made me see red it really did. In fact so red that I have never felt remotely like a victim! I know I hurt him more than he hurt me...
It never occured to me at the time that he might hurt me more if I fought, it was simply instinct taking over, I switched places with a demon I swear!

mummytojames · 03/04/2004 19:36

im sorry if i offend anyone but you cant always avoid these situations i think the best advice i ever had was from the police when i was in school because we had a stalker hanging around the school and they couldnt pick him up because by law he had done nothing wrong well the police came to the school and said if ever going out to quiet places or in the dark do the buddy system which means there is always more than one of you not always practical but i seen the same officer a few years back when i was working shifts and told him what he said and how it wasnt always possible in a way i was lucky because i drove but if i was working nights as the train pulled in i would phone dp and keep talking to him while i was walking to the car telling him exactly where i was until i got into the car and locked all the doors where he would say all safe i would reply yes then we would hang up i dont know if it would have been any help in a emergency situation but it certainly made me feel better knowing someone knew where i was at all times and we both knew if i screamed he was to hang up phone the police and give them my exact whereabouts

bossykate · 03/04/2004 19:37

so you think some women "make it easy" and what, have only themselves to blame?

good for you, but it isn't hard to imagine scenarios where fighting isn't an option.

mummytojames · 03/04/2004 19:38

kiwi bird you like any other woman was doing what you thought what was best at the time and i hope you realy hurt the animal

bossykate · 03/04/2004 19:54

kiwisbird, i regret the tone of my last post to you. i'm really sorry that you experienced such an awful thing. that you can find elements of the experience to look back on and feel proud of your own response (if i have read you correctly) is an amazing thing.

just think the fighting option wouldn't be an option for all women and that they should be made to feel guilty if they didn't fight back for whatever reason. what happened wouldn't be their fault under any circumstances. that's all i meant to say.

bossykate · 03/04/2004 19:55

aarrgh!! s/e "shouldn't be made to feel guilty..." of course.

mummytojames · 03/04/2004 19:59

i think the line that some people come out with makes me realy mad like wearing a skirt like that she asking to be raped or what does she expect going out like that every time i hear those lines i blow a fuse a tells them straight that no woman asks to be raped and as far as i knew we are living in the 21 century so women so feel free to walk out naked if they wished with out haveing to worry about putting there lifes at risk because of these sickos

grumpyzebra · 03/04/2004 20:10

Fully agree that not fighting back does not make the woman in any way responsible for what happened. Actually, when I first saw this thread title I had a horrible feeling it put the blame on the woman, too. Don't know about all the other points in Janstar's message, although the mobile phone one just seems like common sense (ie, be aware of what's around you...). I did think "sod the clothes and hair" bits; I'm not going to decide on my hairstyle or what to wear based on how easily a rapist could get me.

kiwisbird · 03/04/2004 20:19

kate no offence taken honey! Intelligent posts are coming thick and fast here - its really intersting to read.
My point is that you find it nigh impossible to stick to a game plan in such a situation.. you simply cannot know what you will do whether freeze of fright or bite like a bitch...
I bit

JennH · 03/04/2004 20:28

It does upset me sometimes when people say oh if it happened i would scream and fight etc. I always thought I would and as it was I just did nothing. Took me a while to even recognise that what had happened was wrong because it was only an attack if you fought.

Good for you for fighting kiwi

bossykate · 03/04/2004 20:29

kiwisbird, oh good i am glad agree, you couldn't possibly know what you would do under the circumstances. hope that bastard has still got the toothmarks...

bossykate · 03/04/2004 20:30

jenn, i'm not surprised it upsets you. it is so completely not your fault just because you didn't fight.

kiwisbird · 03/04/2004 20:34

missing part of an ear actually

grumpyzebra · 03/04/2004 20:35

Wow, we all know who not to jump in dark alley!
My foster sister once punched (she was very big and broad shouldered) a flasher full in the face, her hand was quite bloody afterwards, hehehe...

marthamoo · 03/04/2004 20:41

It is never the woman's fault.

Jenn, don't you dare try and shoulder any blame for what happened to you because you didn't fight, hon. You are here, you have your lovely dh and your beautiful dd. Likewise, kiwi, you fought and you know you did the right thing for you, good on you.

How can we possibly know how we will react in a situation or what is the right thing to do? You go with your instincts and do what you have to to get through. I think you are BOTH brave and strong women for having the courage to talk about it on here xxx

Janstar, I think it's a good thing you posted this yesterday - it's kicked off a really positive debate.

kiwisbird · 03/04/2004 20:44

yes and however we react right or wrong in hindsight, it is NOT US that take any blame
Rapists are criminals, they are the ones who shoulder ALL the blame.

Paula71 · 03/04/2004 23:13

I was once advised that instead of crying "rape" to shout "fire" as you would get the attention of more people. And I can believe that.

I think everyone knows rape is a power issue and not sex. Even on date rape. To be honest rapists are scum on par with paedophiles, they destroy lives and then are given all this sympathy and "rehabilitation" so they can go free to do it again.

Original poster
Janstar · 04/04/2004 11:27

I haven't been on line since Friday, I've now caught up with all this.

I must admit when I posted the advice I was sent, I had nothing more complicated in my mind than simply hoping to help others protect themself, maybe even just a little more than they did yesterday. I hadn't thought deeply about any other implications of the advice. It has been most interesting to see what people have had to say.

I'd just like to say for the record that I agree completely it can never be a woman's fault that she is raped. And I certainly don't think anyone should be changing their hairstyle etc for this reason.

I simply think that any little piece of advice that helps us to be more aware of how to protect ourselves against any crime is a positive thing. We all know we should not have to protect ourselves against rapists or any other type of criminal but the sad fact is that we have to watch out for these people and all I was thinking was that forewarned is forearmed. No method of trying to defend oneself would be infallible of course.

I think Aloha's advice was brilliant, as usual.

OP posts:
lou33 · 04/04/2004 15:37

I was out for the night with dh's mate on friday, and he is v good @ judo, been doing it since he was about 8. He gave me a couple of good tips, if I ever get into a situation like that (hopefully I never will). I just hope I never have to use them, and that my mind doesn't go blank at the time. He said there is no point trying to go for their eyes or their genitals, as they are the 2 places a bloke will always expect to be attcked, and so naturally protect them. The single best place iho, was to go for the windpipe.

spacemonkey · 04/04/2004 15:41

He also showed us a really neat trick by which you can render someone completely powerless by holding one finger, but it's impossible to describe here.

marthamoo · 05/04/2004 09:08

Lou, perhaps your dh's mate could teach us all judo?

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