Troubled toddler or could it be Autism.

[concerned]

I need advice re: DS 4 and a half years old.

I do hope that someone out there could help me. My ds attends nursery and has done for about 9 months now. I have been called several times to discuss his behaviour, which has become naughty at school. his behaviour at home is not too bad (well for a 4 yr old). His behaviour at nursey has bome awful, examples are, will not listen when given instructions, flaps are about, will not sit still and runs about and makes noises etc etc. To me its like a different child, I see him change the moment he is dropped off there. the carers all see very competent.

While at home he makes noises, I consider this playful noises when playing, now and again will not give eye contact (usually distracted by telly etc etc) very affectionate, very helpful.

It was suggested that he could have autism (by another mum) and I was concerned as I do not know anything about it. I have looked on WWW and it seems like a minefield to me, and then thought about asking the wonderful parents on here for some advice.

Are there any tale tale signs. Obviously I am deeply concerned.

Just also want to add that have spent the best part of the last hour looking through old threads. DS pointed at a young age and spoke early (2 word sentances at 12 months). Not sure about the different levels of Autism, someone just mentioned this as a passing comment and I have been worried ever since (worrier that I am). Would like to hear from parents that can offer advice, even ones who's children have similar symptoms and are not autistic. DP works away in the week and I have managed to get myself into a state.

Concerned - try the special needs threads, there are lots of ladies who will be able to help you.

Have you looked at the threads in special needs. Things like "autism is" etc If your child pointed out things of interest by age 18 months (and hasn't regressed ie will still point etc) then I think autism is unlikely. However I don't know much about Aspergers (although 4 is a bit young for an AS diagnosis anyway)

I think it might be worth you reading "The out of synch child" - you can get it from Amazon by carol stock kranowitz. Its about children with sensory disorders- and can give the flapping etc that is seen in autism (because autistic children generallky always have sensory problems so the symptoms overlap). Also worth looking up Tourettes on google (just because of the noises), and ADD. See if any of those fit. They're often quite similar to autism but without the same level of communication problems.

Would also recommend giving fish oils- Eye Q or Efalex are good and starting that asap- you may see a difference very soon. My son's attention without fish oils is non existent (he's autistic) on it he's a calmer happier child who can follow adult direction.

sorry I meant threads like "aspergers is"

Concerned, you may have already found this when looking on past threads, but this checklist was helpful to me (as a crude rule of thumb, "PDD" in US equates to the higher-functioning end of the autistic spectrum). FYI, my ds scored just under the threshold and we've been told, with useful reasons, why autism isn't an issue for him - although yes, he flaps sometimes, he won't listen, he forgets instructions, he doesn't maintain eye contact, he makes noises, he's nice at home and a pain at school ... (I put the reasons on the "Asperger's is ..." thread.)

Thanks for you help. The score was very very helpful. I guess it could be like anything else, could have 20 symptoms and I read 3 and started to panic.

that checklist is pretty good. My son came out as "severe PDD" which he is I guess - it's asking the right sort of things as well.

interesting test. My youngest son scored quite a few points in the social interaction section, but few outside it. He is very socialble and affectionate, yet some of the markers - in a world of his own, ignoring questions, not continuing conversations, poor eye contact at times - he has very moderately.

Look at the NAS website, its got lots of info.

try not to panic, most 4 year old boys will find listening to instructions difficult. i remember my ds1's teacher telling me the most difficult skill for a child under the age of 10 to master is the art of sitting still! and in the words of steven biddulph (bringing up boys) you would think we were educating senior citizens - not young children at their most energetic. combine with the fact that children start school at 4 instead of 6/7 on the continent and you start to get people maybe misdiagnosing children - especially boys with behaviour difficulties/adhd, when maybe they are just being typical spirited young people.does he have quiet times to wind down? tv can have such a impact on behaviour as at this age they are trying to make sense of the world. does the nusery have a good outdoor space where he can climb/cycle/dig/run etc. when i first took my ds1 to his current nursery they really helped me understand his behaviours for example he would constantly throw things in the air and was obsessive about it. they taught me this was completely normal and was documented by piaget who called it ' vertical scheming' where children do something repeatedly until they understand it. they suggested lots of role play at home to help him engage and listen which has made a massive change. hope some of this helps

also re: the noises he makes - could these be a part of him role playing - being 'in character' which again is very normal for his age

My ds1 is 3yrs 9mths and autistic. If I'm honest, there was nothing in your post that set off any real alarm bells for me - although of course I'm only going on a few paragraphs. Things that make ds1 stand out from the rst of his playgroup are:

• Not liking other children to get too close to him when playing (although he is making huge progress with this).

• Not thinking to tell anyone if there is a problem. In his mind everyone else knows what he knows so there would be no point in telling someone he is unwell etc

• Taking things very literally.

• Hating getting his hands dirty as they are so sensitive (this wouldn't necessarily apply to all children).

• Not pointing out things he finds interesting, eg he has never said "Look at that man over there, Mummy."

He doesn't really arm-flap any more unless really worked up. He prefers to run round and round in circles.

• Not having much of an idea about imaginative play, eg he doesn't pretend his toys can talk, or pretend that he is a soldier etc. He can go through the motions with other children but doesn't really get it.

Coppertop's list is very good. I don't know if you need to worry but an assessment won't do any harm.
I've never heard of a child misdiagnosed with autism..... its usually the other way round that the Drs are in denial and the parents are desperate!!

Hey concerned... try not to panic. If you want to be sure take DS in to the GP? personally i cant admitt to knowing much about autsim, im a student nurse and ive touched on signs symptoms tec and to be honest in some ways i think all of us in the room who have kids were sat there saying yup my DD/DS does did that. the point with autism is the extent of the behaviour, specifis like repitition of movements and behaviours... Clinical signs may include similar symptoms to the current in tag of ADHD, dont please jump down my throat anyone out there i accept some children really do have problems with ADHD, but is of increasing concern to medics that it is over diagnosed. so i guess concerned id ensure that DS knows what behaviour is expected, DD recently underwent the hair pulling and biting routines she is now 18 months and has stopped it. The chreche kept telling me about it but it wasnt untill it improved and i was brave enough to ask why make such a drama out of normal infant behaviour? that they pointed out that it wasnt a problem to them really but they have to tell me as policy that she was doing it. perhaps the same for your nursery? so if your worried go and see the gp, probably just a normal, strong willed toddler.

The fact that the child changes the moment he hits nursery really suggests it's environmental, not inherent inside him. This thread is reminding me a lot of the other recent thread about a 4.5yo boy acting up at nursery, and what they told me at playgroup, this (among boys who start school relatively late) is the normal age for them to turn silly and boistrous and completely piss about at Nursery.

Agree that seeing your GP would be a good starting point, only to get referred on though. Most GPs wouldn't know enough about autism to give an informed-enough opinion imho (and I'm NOT anti-GP, mine are fab )

Hi concerned,
I know how you feel as I'm goin through something similar. My ds2 was supposed to be assessed at pre school today but he's off with a sickness bug
I felt sad last week when the pre school leader asked for our permission to bring someone in even though I'd been voicing my concerns. It just made it so 'real'.
But, the more I think about it the more grateful I am. My nephew is severley autistic and my late sister (she died last July) had an awful life as she wouldn't let us in iykwim. Her DH is left with him now and takes him to the pub which he loves. sorry, goin off the track as usual.
take care hun and ask for all the help u feel u need x