Thinking of doing a PGCE (with 3 small kids!) Gulp!

[Katherine]

Is there anyone out there doing a PGCE with small children in tow?

I'm quite keen to do one with a view to going on to educational pyshcology (already have the pyshcology degree) but am a bit dazed by all the options.

Because we live in a rural area, far from any universities etc, then an OU course would suit me best but they only seem to offer secondary school courses. Because my degree is not a curriculum subject I don't think I can do that.

Besides given that I am thinking about special needs I think primary would be better with more focus on learning to read etc - or maybe this just appeals because my kids are small and DS has been having problems etc. But the only place I can find offering a primary course which still has places is 2 hrs away so just not practical.

There is also the programmes where you are employed by a school and learn as you go along. Mmm a salary that would be novel! But then you just get QTS and not a PGCE and I think I need the PGCE for the educational pyshcology.

Just wondered if there is anyone else in a similar boat out there and how you are finding things. My kids are 5.5, 4 and 7mths. At the mo I've been working from home but am really feeling the need to move on and return to a career now but at the same time don't want to miss out on my kids or have them miss out on me. DH works over an hour away so all the childcare, social activities etc are down to me and I've got no family nearby to help. What do you suggest I do?

hi Katherine, I used to work alongside ed psychs (PhD in developmental psych) and seriously considered doing the training-up to the point where I was offered a place on a GTP programme last year. in the end I decided I wouldn't cope at all well with a mixed ability classroom so have ended up as a university adminstrator!

I was told that I'd have no choice but to teach primary as it's hard to get the science/maths side of a psych degree accepted as enough for a secondary school course. TBH i could never have managed to teach maths though :0 They can be quite sniffy about psych graduates going onto PGCE courses as they assume thatyou intend to move on after you've done the 2 years. Therefore you need to show that you've had lots of recent classroom experience, having kids is apparently not enough, I had to prepare a portfolio for my interview.

I was told that the GTP courses are acceptable but it can be a disadvantage if you want to apply for a LEA funded place on an ed psych course (where you get paid a salary and they cover your tuition fees) as these are scarce.

There have been moves to offer a research based ed psych PhD (as they do with clinical psych) but no changes as yet. if you are welsh speaking and live in Wales definitely go for it as they are desperate for welsh medium ed psychs, otherwise could you arrange a job shadow for a few days? Also, some places are now offering p/t PGCEs so that might be an option for you?

When I was doing my PGCE there were mums and dads doing it with 3 kids but it was difficult. A pgce is very time consuming with no children, I did it with one and had a very good childminder and supportive husband. How ever you do it most of your time will be spent in usually two schools and you cannot leave school when the kids do not can you get in when the kids do so you will need childcare for your children for full time hours apart from the holidays although we still used our cm during the holidays due to my very large workload.
You will have to also work in the evenings and weekends.

You are also expected to spend some time in a school beforehand as believe me having children yourself is not going to give you an accurate picture of what it's like to be a teacher!

Hi Katherine, I am starting a PGCE Primary course in September and like you have three children although mine are a bit older and are all at school now. The course I am doing is a SCITT which means I actually do all my training in a local primary school. Unlike the GTP I will only get the £6000 bursary that all PGCE students get but I will of course get a PGCE at the end as well (I hope!)
I have to go into the school four days a week and still have to complete assignments etc. so I think it's going to be pretty hard work.
I have also had to arrange pre and after school childcare and with 3 children this does not come cheap.
I also looked into flexible primary PGCEs where you only go into college one day a week or so and the rest is done by distance learning. This sounds like it may be good for you. There should be a list of providers of flexible courses on the GTTR website.

Just about to start my final practice on my PGCE - only one ds, aged 2.5. As said below, it is a lot of hard work, and I would only have been able to do it with the help of good childcare and supportive dh - although he unexpectedly had to work in London for nearly all of my last practice, so that was a real struggle. There are a lot of people on my course with children including one girl who has a 4 yo and a 7month old (when we started course) - she had a long drive to Uni each day and her placement schools fell badly interms of travel for her - which is something you need to check out, would they be further away than the University??

A GTP course would have been much better for me financially, and the part time PGCE in terms of time, but I wouldn't swap what I have done for any other route - it's been tough, but it's nearly over and I have just got my first teaching post in a fab school starting in September. If I were you, I would have a chat with the admissions office re: school placements and possibility of the part time PGCE.

I thought the ed psych thing was changing in a couple of years and you don't need your PGCE any more?? A few on my course are going for ed psych by this route and have bemoaned the fact that if they waited a couple of years they wouldn't be having to do all this work

This is interesting as it's something I'm considering in a couple of years. Do you get help with childcare costs? We could only afford it if we did.

me interested too.....will be following this thread...

for a pgce you get £6000 spread over 9 months plus you can apply for a loan. afaik no help for childcare.

to all those who are interested in ed psych rather than teaching, this may be of interest.

A PGCE is hard work - and yes, at the moment you do need a PGCE to go on to train to do educational psychology. It is very hard work and quite intense. And with kids, I can't imagine how pressurised it would be. It would be easier if you had a supprt network to help you out.

I too have a psychology degree and did a PGCE - but I was 23, single and still found it immensely stressful.

If you want to do it though, then you will managed the workload and pressure. Feel free to contact me via mumsnet if you want more info

Katherine, when I started my PGCE, my dd was 8 months old, and our childcare costs were more than the mortgage! As everyone said it's really hard work( like till 4am ) on top of everything else, but if it's what you want you'll do it.

Of course hiccups happen- your child is ill and you can't go to school, or your assignment is late, but tutors have heard it all before, and are( normally) understanding.

I knew someone who did the ou course as it was the only way for her, and she was determined to do it by any means.

I'm glad I changed careers- for me it was def. worth the hard work. Now try to convince myself looking at all the National Teasts crying out to be marked

Katherine, where abouts are you? Canterbury Christ Church have started a part-time PGCE (primary)over two years. Its one day a week (Friday) and 2-3 Saturdays per term and then you do the teaching blocks full-time. I've thought about it but I'm hearing so many horror stories about teaching and people warning me to stay out of teaching because of the enormous workloads teachers have nowadays.
Would any of you who are qualified agree with this as it has really put me off.

You need to spend some time in a school to get a true picture. There is a lot of work and can be very stressful. There are only so many times in the day you can be told to f off and not get a bit down. But the highs are really good and I've only met one child who wasnt alright on a one to one, it's the group mentality that is the worst but most kids are fine when not surrounded by friends.
You can leave at 3.30 as long as no meetings and wrk from home if you wish. I love not having to leave ds with childminder during holidays(13 weeks) although I did still have to pay.

You could spend 100 hours a week working but I try to limit myself and do no more than 60 although some teachers cant limit themselves and end up ill but I do think a lot of it is about saying no.

I have a love/hate relationship with teaching at the moment. I love it and it is the only thing I would ever do. When I am doing the actual teaching bit it is great (unlike today when I am off sick!!) The rest I hate - the planning, preparation, reviewing, marking, politics, national strategies, reports, meeting without a point, endless paperwork, filing, photocoying, etc etc etc. The need to do lots of stuff at home, the feeling guilty for not doing the work , as I want to spend time with DS and DH, the feeling guilty and resentful for DOING the work at home as I want to be with dh and ds. The stressing about the work I have to do when with dh and ds, the stressing about not being with dh and ds when i am doing the work.
Counting money, filling out forms, etc etc

The part time course sounds like a good alternative however if you really want to go for it.

Even though I say all of the above stuff, I am still committed to my job and although some things have slipped since I had DS, I feel I still do a good job. The I also feel that there is always loads that I ought to be doing and I am always chasing my tail. Oh, and the stressing if you hadn't noticed!

If any of you wish to contact me via another talker for a less rant-y version of it all, then please do so.
I teacher Year 6 if that helps...

Well I know it will be hard work but I had two of my kids whilst doing my PhD so I know I can hack that. DD was 3mths old when I had my viva - DH had her in the office next door as I was feeding every 2 hours. It was stressful and hard but worthwhile in the end although there were lots of tears along the way.

A part time course is an option but I worry that it might also just drag the stress out longer. Times flies by so quickly. Working like mad for one yr might not be great but the end will always be in sight.

But there is also the quandary with ED Psych. If the course is changing in 2005 so that you don't need to qualify as a teacher but do 3 yrs instead then I could wait for that. But then I could only do Ed Psych whereas this way I can also teach instead if I prefer it - or specilise in special needs teaching. If I do a part time course then I would qu\lify as a teacher just when I didn't need to be a teacher. Ho hum. Doesn't help that I've left it late enough that most of the courses are filled already.

Oh why can't the OU do primary teaching. Would make it so much easier.