Plastic beepy toys distract momentarily; toy manufacturers hope parents buy into this con. Discuss.

[hub2dee]

Babies and children have as much fun with everyday objects.

IMHO, plastic beepy toys are foul, homogenous, annoying beasts. They occupy children for relatively short amounts of time, before kids (of whatever age) move on to the next piece of similarly garish, sterile crap. These toys have no soul and do not allow true exploration nor the development of much in the way of imagination.

Crafted around a Pavolvian trigger and response concept, these toys serve up their rewards as blasts of noise, flashes of light or moments of fast movement. Their limited ability to sustain interest means that us parents need to relentlessly offer up the next toy to play with in a conveyor belt of stilted interaction.

We hope that by spending £10 or £20 on A Toy it will please and occupy our darlings, but ironically they tend to get the most fun out of the mundane and ordinary: The bunch of keys, the remote control, a dowel of wood. The toy industry is one giant con.

Or am I wrong ?

This rant has been inspired by revelations concerning Heuristic Play and things like FaZ's reference to treasure baskets etc.

So - what are good things to put in? I might trawl the charity shops tomorrow I think.

Natural objects: Pine cone, large pebble, loofah, large shell, pumice stone, large feather, large cork, natural sponge, citrus fruit.

Wooden objects: egg cup, clothes peg, curtain ring, nail brush, small bowl, coaster, wooden spoon, napkin ring, small ornament, small lidded box.

Metal objects: spoon, bunch of keys, egg whisk, small sieve, length of chain, jar lid, small bowl, curtain ring, bracelet, bicycle bell, egg cup, bulldog clip, lemon squeezer, garlic press, small mirror in frame, metal keyring, tea strainer.

Aromatic objects: Citrus fruit, leather purse, lavender bag, rubber door stop, leather glasses case.

Noisy objects: Bell, whistle, piece of cellophane, chime ball, harmonica, castanets, small maraca, other shakers made from wood or metal, bean bag, rattle, bunch of keys, tin or box filled with dried beans and glued firmly shut.

Fabric pieces: scrap of velvet, fur, silk, corduroy etc.

Other interesting items: paint brush, toothbrush, ribbon, small thick glass jar (eg individual sized jam jar), marble egg, empty salt pot, string of ?pearls?, raffia mats, small baskets, shaving brush, wicker ball.

The basket should ideally be shallow, but large and sturdy enough for ds to prop himself up against, so that his hands are free to explore, hunker. But anything you have will do for now.

These items have been selected to be safe for babies under 1 year to explore with supervision. But every child is different - use your knowledge of your child to judge what is safe, and never leave them unsupervised with the basket.

Feel free to email me for more information - frannyandzooey at india dot com - I have a lovely document with pretty pictures

(sorry hub, have hijacked your thread to trawl for more disciples)

But what do you put in a wnaky basket?

(I still maintain that a remote control is covered in funny bumps, is rather nice to suck, makes a cool sound when you thwack it on someone's head and also, Lo ! TURNS ON THE BOX.

hub2dee our treasure basket is always out as ds plays with it a lot..however dd obviously only gets access when I can sit and watch her.

I would keep the basket separate and get it out for an hour or so at a time, O Head Disciple. The babies really concentrate and 'work' hard while exploring the basket and I think much longer than that would almost be too tiring for them.

Also the freshness and interest will be kept longer for them if they use it for limited periods rather than having it at hand all the time. But I don't actally have a baby of this age - I just use them in my classes. Parents who use them on a day to day basis might be able to correct me on this - maybe HC will come along and tell us, I know her dd2 loves hers.

F&Z you are a star, thank-you.

The funny thing is, when we go to my mum's there are very few toys at her house so we bunged some random bits & pieces into a wicker basket and dd always enjoys going through it, so in a way I'd done a wnaky basket without realising it!

Yes good point curtain, as you need to give your child your attention while they are exploring the basket, it isn't something you should just leave lying around, as you do with the clunky plastic stuff. That's an advantage of plastic, it's very safe. Dull, but safe.

YES BUT WHAT DO I PUT IN ONE?

You are an instinctual Heuristic Play Therapist, liath

Hub wrote to me today "it's innate parenting
knowledge which seems to have been surpressed by the relentless grind of the toy-making industry"

(hope you don't mind me quoting you hub but it was a fab line)

People who phone to enquire, or attend my my groups often say "Oh but I sort of do this at home anyway!" It's blindingly obvious when put down on paper, but we have been conned into thinking we need to be buying complicated and ugly pieces of plastic in order to amuse and educate our children

PanicPants pls see my post of 9.50 pm

AND CALM DOWN THERE'S A LOVE

I think I'll have to make ds a wnaky basket. He's into everything except his plasticy toys atm.

Having said that.........his current favourite toy is an empty Banana flavour Frijj bottle.

panic pants franny has done a list lower down

There are some bits in our basket that I have to take out as dd is only 7mths so will shove them into her mouth but ds loves the feel of them so they stay in when he is playing with it. DD probably spends about 20-30mins a day having a root through the basket but ds constantly has something from it whether it is a wooden sppon pretending to make dinner/banging it on a seive or the cardboard tube to hide things in.

Ooops didn't see that F&Z

{pp hides under red plastic guitar}

Not to mention a proto-lentil weaver. Bought quinoa the other day - "What the f* is quinoa" says DH. "Actually" I say smugly "It's pronounced keen-wah" Still haven't figured out what to do with the stuff, though.

Have emailed you, Franny - thank you for the list, very handy. DS1 also plays with loads of the stuff on it, albeit not in a basket of any kind, because we have a very messy house

FaZ, we can correspond like the intellectual giants of yesteryear and when we are really old they will print out our literary murmurings and wonder about the nature of our relationship.

My e-mails were rather 'eureka' in their nature. (Actually hotmail doesn't keep copies of sent mail, could you forward them back just incase any of the text can inspire me when I'm feeling dull and bored ? Thanks)

Yes yes yes

yes to everything, will do it all in the morning, but must sleep now, am exhausted from long hard deaf day of bark sucking

ooh I love you all, am so inspired by conversations like this, good old Mumsnet

Was that a Harry met Sally "yes, yes, yes" ?

Re: good ole' MN - yeah, but it took a man to start the thread, didn't it.

Another disciple converted F&Z thanks for the list.
A great idea but what will I do with all the plastic tat?

PanicPants - you panicked earlier didnt you?

Haven't read all this thread so apologies if anything is repeated.

I like thelook of the treasure basket but the only problem is how does baby differentiate between the things they can have and other everday items elsewhere in the house that they can't have?

Bit like giving a puppy a slipper to chew then moaning at them when they chew your best ones!

So, those of you with them, how do you teach baby to distinguish between cans and can'ts?

I don't think you can teach a baby of less than a year not to play with your stuff, QE. Save yourself the heartache of trying, move your stuff out of reach, and distract them instead, with something that they are allowed to play with.

yes, I swap things round in the wnaky basket. dd1 also chucks in contraband stuff while I am not looking e.g. the balloon bump, stuff she thinks dd2 will like (she's usually right) so I have to do a proper sort at the end of the day.

Hub - in response to your OP, I would tend to agree with you. I find ToyRUs and the likes extremely depressing tbh.
I have been reading a book called "Making the Terrible Twos Terrific" by a chap called John Rosemond and his take on toys is very sensible.
He talks about "play value" of toys in terms of durability (can the toy stand the wear and tear. toddlers like taking things apart so it's wise to purchase toys that come apart without breaking), flexibility (a toy which can be many things. eg blocks can be all sorts of things - a beeping flashing toy is one thing only and that's a beeping flashing toy) and developmental appropriateness (ie the toy should match the childs development stage).
He states that the greater the toy's play value, the longer it will hold the childs attention.
He also summarises it by saying that if the toy wasn't around before around 1950 (with a few exceptions) then it probably doesn't have a lot of play value. So wnaky baskets seem to fit the bill, as do saucepans and wooden spoons etc etc.
My ds is lucky enough not to have mountains of beeping flashing plastic and as a result he doesn't have a Mummy who is driven up the wall with these terrible noises. Once he is a bit more mobile, his next toy is going to be a big cardboard box.
Oh and BOOKS are fab whatever the age of the child.