playgroups discriminating against working parents

[scampadoodle]

I'm (rather belatedly) putting ds, 2.5, on waiting lists for local playgroups (didn't do it before as until v recently he was a morning napper & all groups near me were in the morning). However, it's proving pointless as they all insist on the child attending 5 days a week. I work 3 days a week; one of those dh has him so there's no problem, but the other 2 he's in full-time childcare. This means that he can't attend playgroup, end of story. He's at the age where he needs way more stimulation than I can provide (& I 'm expecting No2 in June) & I was really counting on this facility not only for his well-being, but for my own! Local private nurseries don't allow part-days, by the way, even if I could afford it. I think this is so unfair. I feel that ds & I are doomed to wander aimlessly around the park every day, all day whilst he misses out on the social & educational stuff he desperately needs.

Has anyone else come up against this problem?

I'm really surprised by this. Are there any school nurseries near you? Similarly private school nursery classes are often very flexible, DD goes f/t but most of the 2-3 year olds only do a few mornings or afternoons.

Seems really unusual to me for them all to expect a child so young to go every day. Most where I used to live were minimum 2 mornings which could increase as they got older. Does the childcare not offer educational activities for him, although wouldn't necessarily help your situation ? Is there a creche at a local college or leisure centre which you could use to give yourself a bit of a break ?

How abou a childminder on the other 2 days?

He doesn't qualify for school nurseries until he's 3, although to make matters worse, he's a september baby so he doesn't get a place until sept 2005, when he's 4!
My situation at the moment is that on the 2 days when both dh & I work, we have a nanny. She is absolutely fantastic, but in her sixties & won't be able to cope with both the baby & my ds once I'm back at work. That, combined with him really needing lots of stimulation & running around, has made us decide to put him in (private) nursery for those 2 days. We're on the waiting lists of a couple nearby. God knows when that'll come through. I don't know how strict they are about the no part-days rule; perhaps they'll bend it once I'm 'in'. I hope so. I only want a bit of time to do housework. Ds was a real nightmare as a baby; if no2 is the same I just won't be able to cope with it & a toddler. I felt like topping myself back then...
I don't know about childminders. Everywhere I turn there's a bloody 20-year waiting list (I live in North London). I'm starting to feel like a complete failure for not putting his name down 10 years before he was conceived... Sorry to sound moany, but everyone else I know in the area seems to got all this sussed & I'm the lemon left behind. It's just getting me down a bit.

scampadoodle, sorry to hear you're having probs with playgroups...am very surprised indeed at this policy because ds and dd both went to playgroup and when they were that little it was recommended that they only do a couple of days, three days as it is a big step for them and quite tiring too..

ds had to do 5 days at last place we lived at but it was service run playgroup, he was 3 and 1/2..wonder if could get perhaps the number of a midwife who covers your area, as they are very often wired into every thing to do with pre-school activities...after birth of ds, got a booklet from her with all the playgroups/ nurseries/ mums and tots/ music groups etc, some which I hadn't and wouldn't even have thought of checking out as never heard of them...keep asking people, someone might just know (shopkeeper with children ifykwim

You're not moaning at all, I'd be pretty p'd if it was me and I never put their names on a list until about 2 months before they were due to start, good luck

I'm suprised too. My ds went for 2 1/2 hours, twice a week. That was the minimum, but he did that the whole time - we never increased his hours. Agree about asking around and contacting HV.

I'm surprised at this policy too. When ds1 started at playgroup he could go for just one morning a week if we wanted. The only stipulation was that if we wanted to change his days or add to them we had to let them know the week before.

Our HV gave us a list of playgroups in the area with contact numbers etc. Maybe your HV will know of other groups rather than just the ones who can afford to advertise. Good luck.

Scampdoodle, don't know if this is any help, not sure if it is the same everywhere but you say your son won't be able to start school nursery until sept' 2005 because he's a sept baby, I'm sure that he should be able to start at the school after the easter term, after he has turned three, as I say am not sure if this happens in all schools or just the ones I know about, but maybe worth looking into in advance?
Doesn't solve your immediate problem though I'm afraid!

Scampadoodle: the nurseries in Cambridge are similar to what you're describing, with the all or nothing 5 half- or 5-fulldays/week thing. At least, that's what most of them told me on the phone. It doesn't matter if you have funded sessions, but when you're paying out of your own pocket... Sorry, but I am puzzled; I have a good friend who is in her 50s Nanny and she managed baby & a toddler ok.

Here's a good one, too; school nurseries in Norwich either do mornings (older children) or afternoons (younger kids, fully funded, I think, from 2.5yo). My kids will be 4.5 & 2.5yo for the summer term this year... would be great to have them both in playgroup when my next baby comes, but can I get them both in for the same sessions? Of course not, because of their age difference! Do I really want to trek up & back to the school nursery 4x/day? No.... And later, how would these funded sessions fit in with having a childminder on the days we work who don't usually do playgroup pickups? Probably not at all!
I won't even go into the hours that my employer's nursery offers, how short they are & yet how they don't really fit with having older children in school, either.

scampadoodle, where in North London are you? My DD1 (2.5) has just started at a nice playgroup - currently 3 sessions a week but they are very flexible. It's between Crouch End and Muswell Hill, I can give you details if you're interested. I think they have space at the moment in their afternoon sessions.

Try www.netmums.com (yes, very dodgy name... )

They have lots of local sites, and list all the playgroups/nurserys/one o'clock clubs in the area. They also have a section on things to do, as recommended by local mums. I only looked on it for the first time today (on the Croydon site) and it seems OK. Might be worth a try?

HTH

All the playgroups around here let you choose how many sessions your child attends. Most parents start with 2 sessions a week.

All the children I have minded have always only gone to playgroup/playschool/nursery, two mornings a week, they are with me th rest of the time or their parents.

I believe any more is two much at such a young age, by all means build the mornings up, but start with a couple. You will quite often find that pg's will try to pressure you into more to fill their empty spaces - more revenue for the. Stand firm!

Mucho sympathy about the waiting lists scampadoodle. I am in East London and it's the same story. You might be well advised to get his name down now for a "school" nursery place for when he's three - they have the great advantage of being free and certainly the one attached to DS's school has no problem with children doing part-time (although most do go every day).

Also, Childcare link is very good for finding groups, nurseries, etc.

I've never heard of this policy either. I live in SE London, my son goes to nursery three mornings and all the children do various combinations of days and hours. All my friends have similar arrangements with other local nurseries - anything from one morning a week to five days and anything in betweeen.

Thanks for all your contributions. The reason the pg's give is that [Islington] council will only give them funding for children who attend 'regularly' ie 5 mornings a week. Obviously other councils are different, so it may be worth writing to my local councillor.
Lisac: As I've said, i live in Islington, so if you think i could still attend in haringey, let me know the number of that pg; it's worth a try. I'm going to see if there are any in Stoke Newington also.
He's already down for the nursery of the school we want him to go to: they told me he wouldn't be able to attend 'til the September after he's 3. ie when he's 4! I've been meaning to put him down for other schools anyway.
SueW: if the child doesn't attend 5 days a week then they ask you to remove him altogether, so the playing truant option 2 days a week won't work!
Thanks again everyone