Busses and Prams etiquette...

[Elf1981]

... is there such a thing?

Was off work today, had agreed to meet some workmates for lunch and take my DD to see them. So, being such a nice day, I thought I would get the bus rather than take the car. That was mistake one.
Offs I trundle to the bus stop, 7 month old DD in her pram. I left myself a good hour from leaving the house to meeting my friends, as it's only a 10 minute bus ride. Gets to the bus stop at 11:30 thinking I have plenty of time. Mistake two.
First bus turns up, the buggy area full. Fair enough, decide to wait for the next one. Next bus turns up, two buggies already on the bus (area can usually take three prams). So I get on the bus, try to slot my pram in the space. Wont fit. Next pram across was a big silver cross thingy with a teeny baby inside. Next to that was a quick folding buggy with a two / three year old inside.
As I cannot get my pram into the space, the bus driver tells me I shall either have to put the pram down, or get off the bus. Now, folding my pram down and putting it up is a two handed operation, which leaves me no hands to hold dd.
I ended up getting off the bus but was really peeved when the owner of the older childs buggy smirked at me as I got off!

If the situation had been reversed, I would have sat older child on my knee and folded down my pram. Would that mean I had common sense or "mug" written on my head?!

Then had to wait for next bus and endure somebody else getting on with me and moaning about what had happened all the way to town.

Eurgh, far too hot!!

I'd be p*d off too.

if i had the been the parent of an older child i would not have folded down my buggy if said child had been my dd2. she would not sit on my lap and wopuld run riot despite my best efforts to control her.

what sort of pram do u have? i only tend to use my stroller on the bus in case i need to fold it down.

Poor you - but you have just put me off getting the bus into town tomorrow with dd!!!! although she is 2 & I would have put the buggy down & moved her or even have done that in the first place!

I've seen that so many times, but people never do seem to fold it down, even when the child is perfectly capable of walking. I don't think there is any etiquette unless you count first come, first served!

I have a M&P pilko, not big but not easy to fold down. I rarely go on the bus and refuse to buy an umbrella style buggy for the odd trip on the bus, as it was an expensive pram, but I live in a teeny house so buying a new pram is a no no.

I would have been annoyed if I'd been you and if I'd been the mum of the older child I'd have folded the buggy up.

It's hard not to be exasperated but we really should try not to blame one another in this situation - it's the public transport that is at fault, not the parents. That women may have had very good reasons for not folding the buggie down.

May I suggest that next time we have a bad experience on public transport we ring up or write to complain to Stagecoach or whoever, rather than only venting on here - ensuring nothing changes in the long run. If we all got involved at a local community level things would begin to change. I sympathise, it happens to me all the time but complaining on mumsnet is about as useful as writing it in your secret diary.

I agree monkeytrousers but tbh after having complained about public transport a couple of times in the past, I'm not sure about how effective the odd letter of complaint really is.

As a regular londo bus user with two children and a pushchair, I would have to say I would not have folded if I had been the other user. I have to say that (assuming you are in London), it is the bus driver that was at fault. The buses are only liscened to carry one pushchair. Now some drivers will let on two as the space can easily take two of the buggy style ones. And some drivers let on as many as come along as they just don't seem to care. And some stick strictly to the rules of only allowing one. I totally see it as a first come first served issue. If a bus came along with a pushchair already in that space and I wanted to get on, I would not expect the other person to get off or fold their pushchair just so I could get on. Buses are not well designed for pushchairs and I remember the days of the open backed buses that would not take pushchairs at all. I feel we are fortunate in at least being able to get on the buses with pushchairs now (even with big prams) and we do sometimes just have to wait.

I know what you mean. I've found that persistence counts. It's hard not to feel like a busybody but the complaint procedures are meant to discourage you so they can put in their annual reports that complaints are down. But really, if you try to remember that it's only really at this level that you can force change (which is why they don't want you to do it) and see their tactics for what they are you can feel justified and not embarrassed. I have to use the bus everyday and sew horrible abuses of power from rude bus drivers and dangerous driving. What got me started was a blatant example of bullying when a driver closing the doors on me before I'd left go of the safety handle - I was 8 1/2 months pregnant at the time and had just told him off for breaking hard at the bus stop which had almost knocked me over as I was walking to the doors - when a women had just been horrifically killed when a driver did this nearby a few weeks before. I pursued it even though they tried to put me off but it was just too important and their attitude was contemptuous. Now I report everything and make sure I get a response!

monkeytrousers,
that sounds awful :(

The smirking would really have annoyed me too, and is pretty unforgivable from one mum to another, but as monkeytrousers has said there may have been a good reason why she didn't fold her buggy down. My car was in the garage today so I took my 3 year old into town in her buggy - she's a bad walker, I had loads of shopping to do and it's a half hour walk home from town uphill. At the supermarket I loaded my shopping into the net of the buggy which meant that I really wasn't prepared to take it all out and fold it. I had already decided that if I couldn't get on the bus I would have to walk. I got the last buggy space as an elderly lady with a shopping trolly took one and another woman who arrived after me pushed on before me - TBH if anyone else with a buggy wanted to get on I would have felt sorry for them but I wouldn't have unloaded all my bags to fold my buggy.

LOL, my political awakening Bogwobbit.

Re the smirk - I think fighting over crumbs does that to some people. It's a bit sad really.

using buses with a pram is a nightmare, i hate it and avoid it at all costs, my dd is 14 months old, and i have folded her pram up before when someone got on with another pram and a teeny baby, i didnt mind but i got not as much as a thank you which was irritating, the worst thing is when you are standing patiently waiting for a bus and someone comes up after you and tries to push on the bus before you, people have tried this loads of times, i must have mug written on my forehead

just to add they dont get on the bus before me

I'm not in London.
Where I am, all buses can take three prams. As long as they fit in the designated space, they can carry them. Plus it has an area for folded down buggies, can store another three / four, so pretty generous. However, the designed area is probably three prams the same size as mine for a tight fit / three umbrella ones with ample room either side.
The bus driver was very nice, he didnt shout, wasn't rude and explain his points, I didn't have a problem with him at all.

where i live there are two buses; oxford bus company are only allowed to take one pushchair or wheel chair and if you have a pshchair and someone wit a wheelchair comes along you have to get off or fold your buggy.

Stagecoach are allowed to take 3 buggies. But often there is onlt one buggy o there and schoolchildren take up the pushchair spaces. what annoys me is when people stand up near the front when there is room at the back so it is virtually impossible to get on or off witha buggy.

Both of mine are terrible on the bus and usually want to come out of their buggy but even with both of them out, which only happens whenI have someone with me, I wouldn't want to fold it. I have a side by side buggy which you have to force to fold or unfold and i am scraed it will break and a tandem which is the one i usually use but means folding front hood forwards, back hood backwards and putting both seats upright.

If i just have one child with me and hence a single buggy, and i see a woman with a double buggy or woman with lots of shopping then i think its only fair to take my child out and fold my buggy so she can get on with hers. I am not so keen on this if I just have got one of them to sleep though, as like I say, they are both terrible on the bus.

Although i get fed up of hearing older people saying "well in my day we didnt have buses like this so parents today have it so easy!" i do admire them for managing without these buses. I certainly don't know how you can manage when you have two or more small children with a double buggy. my two are aged one and two and i so wish i was an octopus!

I'm in London too, I don't drive so am a regular bus user, and the whole buggy / bus situation really exasperates me. Some buses will take anyone and everyone - I've been on a bus with 5 buggies meaning that two of them at least are in the doorways and nobody can get on or off. Then I've been on others where even though there's a large buggy space the driver will only allow one on, the rest have to fold up. That happened to me once and it ended up with a woman with a 2-year-old on her knee and an empty buggy she refused to fold, me standing the whole way holding a 10-month dd, balancing my half-folded buggy at my feet, and another mum holding a smaller baby with another half-folded buggy at her feet. Nobody offered us a seat but even if they had we couldn't have left the half-folded buggies unattended in the aisle. What I couldn't understand was how the hell we were more of a safety risk standing up like that than if we'd had our children strapped into the buggies in the designated space. Real madness. Now dd's older whenever possible I go by bus without the buggy.

And the OTHER thing that gets my back up is people filling the buggy space with shopping bags, trolleys and luggage and huffing and puffing as if you're a real nuisance when you try to squeeze a small buggy into the space.

my dc's are older now. have to say you are lucky to have these buses. when ds was little I had no choice but to fold the buggy. don't use buses now as dd is in a wheelchair.
wouldn't it be easier if the bus companys had a rule .. say 3 buggy limit and ALL the drivers kept to it on a first come first serve basis then at least everyone would be following the same rules.

I don't understand the "older people" comment at all (well unless I am an older person!) buses with buggy space have only been around a couple of years, certainly as a standard, and actually the "buggy" spaces were mostly put in as part of disabled access legislation and intended for wheelchair users. When my two were in their buggy years (and dd is only 5!) they had special signs to mark the wheelchair accessible bus routes, so they can't have been that comment (at least in London where I live). I think it's great that they are there now, and would have loved it in my "buggy with sling" days, but I also think that sometimes people take the piss with them, so much so that London is covered with signs at the moment saying that you have to be prepared to fold your buggy if the bus gets crowded (you are not supposed to take on prams or other unfoldable pushchairs). I have never seen anyone being turned away with a buggy, but I do think more than two causes problems on buses that aren't designed for them, running over people's feet and causing major problems for people getting on and off. I'm not sure why a buggy should take precedent over old ladies with shopping trolleys etc? However I agree that in general older kids should make way for little ones as far as buggy folding is concerned.

nooka, but does it make sense to make someone fold up a buggy when there's space for it in the disabled area but no space for a parent holding a baby to sit if they do fold it up? That's happened to me once and I've seen it happen quite a few times. The number 47 route is the worst if you're anywhere near that one ever

And I will shut up in a minute. But the other problem is that the driver doesn't stop to wait for you to unload the buggy, fold it, seat a child safely while you do it. They just lurch off making it even harder to manage.

I use a baby bjorn babysling - never use a pushchair on public transport.

Think the mum shhould have taken her kid out of the pushchair - but is it ok to leave kids in prams & pushchairs? Just thinking if the bus has to break.