To be privileged is about far more than just a private education - discuss!

[soapbox]

I get a little bored of the endless private vs state education threads, as to my mind private education is a fairly minor part of a privileged upbringing. I don't think it makes as much difference as the opportunities that mixing in the higher social circles brings!

I thought perhpas some honest views might explain further!

Some things that spring to mind:

Socialising with judges, doctors, CEOs, FDs, MPs etc mean that finding a summer placement job is not going to be a problem.

Always knowing someone who can get tickets to the latest sports game or must see concert.

Never being unsure which knife or fork to use!

Knowing exactly what you will get when you order 'posh' food in a restaurant.

Travelling extensively and seeing history where it took place and getting plenty practice of speaking languages in their native lands.

Not having to worry about how to pay for your first car, ditto the deposit for your first city pad!

What have I missed?

[Just to make clear - being privileged doesn't mean being better - or being happy and I do realise that my children might choose to be hippy drop outs - which of course they are perfectly entitled to be]

Well how do you know that I don't!

That is exactly what I meant by your prejudging me and my attitudes!

Anyway I must too get to bed!

Well I am a jack of all trades and master of none but no law degree would prepare you for taking on the role of Thunderbird 1 at the drop of a hat whilst also playing Hungry Hippos and baking chocolate cakes

soapbox, I've missed something I'm sure. Can I ask what specific recent experiences have persuaded you that having a privelged background as a child counts for such a lot when you're a job seeking adult?

I do think some children are born privileged. If they come from wealthy families where parents really have time for them and can let them persue all their interests - that's got to be the best environment for instilling confidence fostering inate ability.

For instance, say my son loved classical guitar. If money was no object and I had oodles of time I could pay for a top private tutor, buy him a top guitar, take him to concerts whenever he wanted to go, take him on holidays to Spain to hear the real music etc etc. If I had no money and worked all hours, most of the above would much more difficult if not impossible to give my son, no matter how much I wanted him to follow his dreams.

what I meant was you are perhaps - hopefully - talking about the last hurrah??!

Exactly Hat!!!!!

Well I am 41. They range from 40-60's and older I would say.

Thankyou, plus I am Scottish so I even more privileged. I am happy that I don't have to worry that I don't even know what those abreviations stand for.
I have an interveiw tomorrow and some how I won't be worrying about class I am meant to be or what school daddy went to .

I am not prejudging you, my opinion of you is based on the comments i have read from you tonight. You say i don't know if you challenge them, you're right i don't, do you challenge them???

Good luck for tomorrow Skibble, what job are you going for?

Good luck in your interview skribble, i'm sure you'll do well as you are obviously an itelligent, level headed person, and with a gorgeous scottish accent its in the bag hun!!

when I first dived in I was feeling somewhat defensive. dh works in the city. yes he's middle class and yes he's white. he went to a comprehensive (his privelege was having a teacher and a lecturer for parents - backs up your point I guess); I work in a more lefty profession and I get very fed up of ill-informed prejudice about people who work in the city. so I kind of waded in to defend him/it. IME at the mid-30s stage it's very much a meritocracy - and is packed with frighteningly intelligent people - most of the poepl dh employs aren't from the UK anyway so he wouldn;t have a clue where to place them class-wise. But I guess your point my be true. I retreat with my dh's integrity intact whilst conceding that now I understand your point you may have one.

ah, I see you the discussion has moved on - you've said you're thinking about lawyers and accountants in the city. About it being a closed shop to some extent. Don't know enough to comment, realy but always assumed this was so - not fair of course.

Well, thank goodness there are lots of other career choices out there!

I guess if you try to define 'privilege' you also have to define 'succces'. You can't define one without the other IMO.

Part time job in a fabric shop. Oh perhaps i should pretend I am going forjob as a barrister or something to impress the kids.

tigermoth- When he is old enough DS could get a p/t job in a venue where ther music that interests him and listen to loads for free. Of course that is while he is stusying at Cambridge .

Its been lovely ladies but i must away to my bed, being a working class girl i have to get up early to go down t'pit, anybody need any coal?

Tigermoth - it is two pronged i think. One is my own experiences of some of the great and good who I spend a fair bit of time mixing with.

The other end is more insiduous. It is the way in which I think fairly opaque recruitment measures are put in place (this is both at E&Y and the firm I currently work for) where extracurricular activities are a pre requisite for getting an interview. To stand much of a chance these must be in leadership type roles. So captaincy of a team is good, as is leader of a debating group, chairman of university committees - but only serious ones.

Equally what one had done as work placements were a critical part of the rating. The more 'interesting' the better.

Then on the selection course (usually 2-3 days long) attention was very much paid to social behaviours, of which eating and conversing was measured. Thankfully, throwing food around was viewed negatively!

It is hard to pin down exactly what, but my overriding impression was even at selection point the odds were weighted in favour of those who had had 'privileged' backgrounds. However at that stage not impossible to get by. Now where along the road it happened I am not sure. But by the time I am where I am now - there are very few women left and very few who have come from anything other than a well-off background.

I posted the thread as I was interested in the non-educational factors that perhaps more silently put some people ahead of others!

ah yes, scribble, but say my theoretical classical guitar loving ds did find a job in a music venue and then was able to pay for his own lessons, he'd be starting his musical education years later than a child whose parents had the time and money to take him to concerts and buy him lessons.

but employers do need to look beyond the 2:1. And I don;t think, once you have made it to university, class plays much of a role in getting involved in activities - tho concede perhaps a bit. And wrt interesting placements - isn't the person who found some obscure but relevant work abroad off their own bat always going to score more highly than the one who did a mini-pupillage with their uncle? Your experience is interesting - but the other thing is - at what point do you say - as an employer - this is down to your background and at what point do you say this is down to you?

soapbox, frightening isn't it? I don't work in your field, but IMO all work places select types of people, based on how they fit in with those already there. From what I've read, the 'abilty to fit in' is one of the most determining factors when you attend any job interview.

Hat - in theory you are right, but somehow those making it through were not always representative of the initial population. Perhaps Tigermoth is right, people recruit in their own likeness.

I've mentioned class and gender so far. But probably the most obvious fact is that in the last half-dozen or so big meetings I have been at (200 or so attendees) there have been only 1 or 2 people who are non-white! How does that happen????

tigermoth- that may be true, but a child who saves up their pocket money to buy a guitar and later works to pay for lessons shows dedication and a real love for it, a rich child may have more lessons but unless they have real talent its not going to get them that far anyway.

how you got that interesting work placement might be look like it was all off your own bat but really be an indirect result of privelge. You might not have an influential uncle who doles out interesting placements and you might say you did it off your own bat, but that's very open to intrepretation. 'Off your own bat' might be the result of being in the right place at the right time, courtesy of your parents - a lucky chance because your background throws numerous chances and opportunites your way.

Sometimes you have to find your own opportunities, I am talking about life in general though not about getiing work placements in a lawyers office.

agree that working hard for something is the best test for dedication. However, take two equally talented children, one with parents with unlimited time and money and the other with parents with little time or money and the race is unequal from the start, and IMO the less privileged child may never catch up.

In my experience the parents with unlimited money do not have the time, time is what I can give my children, to me privilege is not about money, private tutoring, nannies etc. It is about love and creating opportunities and experiences.

My son could have hidden talents as a classical guitarist but he is to busy sailing, running about in the woods and going to theatre group to have discovered that anyway. We have discovered DD's talent as a dancer and I will do what ever it takes to pay her dance fees and buy her clothes because she needs to learn now. It would be easier if I was rich, but if this is what I have to spend my money on I will.

There are many things that would be easier if we were better off, but after talking about the things we do do I would say we have a pretty dam good life and good luck to thoose of you slaving away in the city to pay the nanny or private school.

Skribble - loads and loads of people who have money have unlimited time!

You just need to visit Harvey Nicks, Harrods or any coffee shops in SW1 to see that!

I spend the sum total of 12 hours a week apart from my children working if you ignore the time when they are in school - not a lot really!

I think many working parents also manage to fit in dancing lessons, music lessons, sports and drama! I know we do!

soapbox, fair enough but not exactly the point I was making. Time is free, time is what my mother gave me, time is what I can give my children.

Perhaps in SW1 thats the case and I am sure where I live it is also true, but many parents are stretching themselves to the limit to give their children a supposed privileged life.

Anyway MIL and myself enjoy doing lunch at least twice a week (OK its not Harrod) the pleasures or working P/T.