would this be something wrong, such as fraud?

[aaaaa]

I have been recieving the new tax credit for a few months now & am worried about the childcare element of things. I work part-time, just 3 days a week & my children attend an ofsted nursery whilst I am at work. I was recently talking to the nursery manager in conversation & said it would be nice if the children could attend an extra morning so I could have some personal time (I'm a single parent). She advised me of the extra cost & I said I'd think about it. She then said to me "but you claim the childcare tax credit don't you so they'll pay towards it too for you". I thought they only paid towards the childcare costs for the days you actually work not for my own private time?

Anyhow I rang the inland revenue & made enquires...I asked if i needed to send my children for an extra days childcare my costs would rise & would they raise the amount they paid to me in return. THEY SAID YES. I asked if they needed to confirm the rise with the nursery etc and THEY SAID NO. All they asked me was 'are your total weekly hours going to change? Is your salary going to change? I explained it was literally just the nursery fees that would change. They said they would pay the extra & all I had to do was ring them & tell them the new weekly fee i was paying once the children actually started.

I am now very confused. I desperately could do with the couple of hours to myself it would give me. I could not afford the extra cost solely on my own but can make up the difference between what tax credit i'd get & the extra fee but am worried I may be doing something fraudulent.....does anyone know the system? any tax people or other claimants who understand it better than me?

Don't know myself, but if the Inland Revenue have Ok'd it then I don't see a problem. How about ringing them again in the morning to clarify?

If you keep the IR informed of what you are doing, there is no way you could be accused of fraud. Also, I imagine the childcare element would still be payable if SAHM's sent their kids to nurseries sometimes in the week to give themselves a rest. As I understand it, it doesn't have to be childcare whilst you are at work, simply childcare you are paying. Your entitlement to it is means-tested.

Please rest-assured that you are definitely NOT the kind of person who would be considered to be fraudulent.

The government is keen to see all children over three having nursery education for the child's benefit, not the parent's. It's certainly not just about providing childcare while you are at work - it's part of their policy on education and child welfare. The thinking is that children benefit from proper nursery education. This is why most (I think) local authorities provide some free nursery time for all children over three. So don't worry!

You can claim 5 free 2.5hr sessions per week from the term after their 3rd birthday.

So I can claim for the 4 2.5hr sessions that my DD2 does a week at my local playgroup now that she is three?

Yes if turned 3 before start of this term. playgroup leader should give you the form.

sugarplumfairy, your dd's place may be funded by the local authority so you may not have to claim via wftc - ask the playgroup, they should know all about claiming the funding.

You just need proof of address and their birth certificate. If you're too late for this term you will be eligible for next term. HTH

In our council area, nursery education grant only applies to all 4 yr olds and some selected 3 yr olds.

All 3yr olds become eligible from April 2004.

Not sue if this is the national position

iota I think it depends on postcode in some areas doesn't it?

wwww I'm not sure how they do it now - used to be postcodes for 4 yr olds, then they shared the grant out equally among all 4 yr olds.
Havn't got a 3 yr old until next Sept, so am not applying at present.

I think if you type your local council name and 'nursery funding' in the search engine, it should tell you.

As I understand it the places for 3=4 year olds are separate to childcare tax credit. So, you could claim xtra tax credit if you put the kids into nursey longer, after all, your kids have to be looked after for longer than you're actual working hours already (commute etc..).

When your child becomes eligible for an LEA grant, this can offset some of your childcare costs(but only if it is Early Years registered with LEA, not the same as Ofsted Registration) and many daycares are not. If your daycare is eligible then your nursery fees go down and so does the amount you claim from tax credit. If your daycare is not eligible you may choose to send kid to a registered setting with LEA grant and claim tax credit for daycare.

The LEA grant is claimed by schools for qualifying reception age children (hence increasing trend for one September intake) so if you use the stae system it's of no apparent benefit to you. You can still claim childcare credit for out of school care.

Sorry, prob not very clear, but the whole thing's a bit complicated!!! i've been having conversations with the bursar at DD's school as I'm looking to reduce my hours and get a lower paid job, he says it's incredibly complicated, esp when you start adding in busy-bee vouichers and so on.

Well this is about as clear as mud now! I phoned the helpline but they wanted info about the playgroup that I do not have so am none the wiser until playgroup opens again next week, still any claim is backdated. Thanks to aaaaa for drawing my attention to this as I didn't have a clue that I could claim anything. Mumsnet does the job again!

We found an EYDCP booklet in the local library. This listed the playgroups in our area and said whether or not the funding was available there. Could be similar in your library too.

eydcp = early years development and childcare partnership

As regards the child care element of the Working Tax Credit: I was told by the IR that as long as the total number of childcare hours doesn't exceed the total number of hours worked (with a little leeway for travel time), then you can claim for them.

So if you only have to tell them that the fees have risen (would be assumed to be price increase) you should get away with it. Just be aware that the next time the actual forms have to be filled in (April) and you have to give info on actual hours/days of work compared to childcare, they may stop paying the extra.

Tinker - according to the IR it does have to be childcare for whilst you are working.

We claim WTC because my husband is the sole wage earner, I am a SAHM since DS2 was born.

I was desperate for some time to myself when I was suffering PND but couldn't afford to pay for a nursery place for DS2 so tried to claim the childcare element to cover it - and was refused on the grounds that I am not working.

I have no idea if this will help or just muddy the waters even further, but up here (in Scotland) I just paid the nursery the normal amount of fees, and then they claimed back the equivalent to 5 times 2.5 hour sessions, and they then paid me on a termly basis. I never had to deal with the local authority myself.

I am a SAHM as well but for tax purposes because DH has his own business I "officially" work for 10 hours a week and this is the same amount that DD2 goes to playgroup so it all looks official from the IR point of view. This is legal at the moment by the way!

I work 4 days a week and send my kids to a childminder 5 days a week. When I filled out the forms I was asked how many hours a week I worked and how much I paid in childcare. I was never asked how many hours a week my children were in childcare. I spend the 1 day a week not working doing "work" on the house, bills, shopping, accounting etc. so I figure I'm still working, just not getting paid for it. So it's still legitimate. In fact, my dh is a builder and has spent the last year working on our house and not getting paid for it. I spoke with IR and they still count this as his working and we are getting wftc for his "low income."