do u bel;ee that we really have any control over our lives or is it already planned out for us?

[misdee]

is everything meant to be the way it is? could we really have changed things at a certain point in our lives? are we all in gods hands?

No no no.

I don't believe any of that. I think if I did I would go mad.
I don't think things are meant to be, I don't beleive all that "theres a path in life already set out for you"

No way. Too deep and scary for me.

there are things beyond our control that happen to us and there are things that happen that are the fallout of our choices in life.

on the former, i think that shit happens for no good reason until we all sit waist deep in it and all we can do is cling on, ride it out and hope for the best.

on the latter, i think that you make your bed and you lie in it.

lol @ god being dyspraxic. sorry god

As an amateur psychologist I would say that it depends on whether you feel internal or external forces influence your life and choices you make.

Bit of both though isn't it? Some things you have no control over but what you can do is choose how you deal with it. Other things you do have control over - it's up to you what choices you make.

No to 1st and last question. Depends to 2nd one

MTP said it best!

There is some research evidence to suggest that people who have an internal locus of control (ie basically believe that they are mostly in control of their destiny) are happier and healthier than those who have an external locus of control (ie think that everything in their life is a matter of fate). Obviously that is not to say that everything in life is controlable, as some thing (IMO) just happen, for example I feel that I was simply very lucky to have been born to a life of relative luxury in the UK, as opposed to a poor country in the throws of AIDS, or war, or other natural disaster. Most things are multifactoral, caused by many things happening that individually might not have made much difference, but together have great impact. I always enjoyed reading the sort of sci-fi/fantasy that had multiple worlds spiining off from every decision, but I am not sure that I really think that true. For myself I just think it is important not to feel that things which are outside of our control are caused by bad things we might have done (ie the mother who believes that she has had a disabled child as a punishment for a previous abortion). I just don't think that is very helpful to anyone. On the other hand, when my dh finally gets a smoking related disease, I will not be very sympathetic (well - I might be, I guess, but this is what I think now).

sorry if I'm being personal, misdee, but weren't you raised JW? What do they teach?

I think that life is too big for human language to describe.

I'll continue freaky's inquisition to ask: misdee, do you mean in relation to Peter's illness, and its impact on your, his, and the kids' lives ?

X

(Don't worry if the answer is, 'No, you freaks, I was just eating dinner and wondering, that's all' )

My mum has a saying that "when one door closes, another one opens", and as I'm getting older, I'm beginning to agree. When I look back at my life, I can see exactly how the jigsaw pieces have all fitted together and how I've arrived at this point - which is a bit weird.
I'm not sure that it's the same as saying it's all pre-destined, or in God's hands, but I do think that certain things are meant to be, definitely.

A large proportion of it is in our hands, a small portion in the hands of others, and nature picks up a sizeable peice too.

in some ways hub2dee yes, i was wondering if we had done things differentlywould we still be here now dealing with all this. At the point when Peter got ill we had all gone out clubbing. majority of people got ill that weekend, i was feeling rough. If we didnt go out, would Peter still had developed DCM. his is thought to be caused by a virus.

And also what if i hadnt got my job, hadnt met peter at work, would we still have met and married at some point? or would i be a high flying career woman now and not know abouts mumsnet.

They say God created Earth to let us decide how to live our lives! And the Devil lives amongst us to show us the other side of how the world could be!But not everyone believes that, and they dont have to! I do believe in the saying what goes around comes around, call it a superstition but i do lol, im bad like that lol.
i agree and relate with with mytwopenceworth and paolosgirl!

Ooooh, a bit of philosophy in the small hours...
I am religious (CofE), and while I certainly don't believe our lives follow a predestined 'plan', I think there's little point in seeking one's responsibility in many events as they are genuinely beyond our control. God does not 'send' bad things to people, but he can give us help and insights into how to deal with stuff (to quote m2pw, shit [that] happens for no good reason). On the brink as a teenager I used to call out to God without really any faith behind it and not really any hope of 'success', but loking back I can see how my prayers were actually heard at that time. I have been in pretty bad situations and come out relatively unscathed, and do feel protected and blessed.

then again I also live in fear of 'really bad' things. I don't really have a sense of basic trust in life.

misdee, tbh, I know nothing about DCM so can't comment on the 'if we'd have done things differently' thoughts. I presume you can get it by exposure to a virus or through a genetic predipostion, and that re: the virus - some people just get a bit ill, others suffer seriously weakened hearts ? (is that about right ?)

The problem with all this is that time travel currently is rather difficult ... so you can't go back, and not go clubbing that night.... and even if you were able to, of course we can't be quite sure that Peter wouldn't have been v. susceptible to the virus at some other point etc. etc.

Now, it's OK to wonder 'what if I'd have got a different job', 'what if I'd have not come in to work that day (I met Peter)', 'what if we'd decided to have the kids later (and he'd got ill first IYSWIM)' etc. etc. but essentially you will get nowhere as it won't change your present circs; you cannot change anything you've done.

Wanting to change it, or have life's story played out differently, is normal. Who wouldn't want a slightly different twist on life and avoid what your family is going through ? I'm sure you wonder about it all the time, I know I would...

... but the thing is, however much you wonder, it won't change this surreal nightmare that you're going through, waiting for his condition to pick up, for him to be on the transplant list, for some poor family to suffer a bereavement, for him to be offered the heart, for the organ to be accepted, for the recovery to go well, for him to return home and for you all to get on with an 'ordinary' life IYSWIM... you can only do the (very difficult) task of looking after the kids on your own, doing the hospital visits, keeping your mate spirited and hopeful (and the same for yourself and your kids obviously)... and waiting, and seeing...

... the task is obviously enormous and stressful. You have been incredible so far, that is for sure. Maybe to fight 'Round Two' you need to work on getting your batteries recharged, as I get the feeling you're running on low... Peter can cope with a few days without his beloved, and of course you can still write, as you do now, but maybe a few hours / day / weekend on your own (or maybe with the kids, I dunno), would be a really good thing, as well as some simple treats for yourself ??? Perhaps that sort of thing would give you a break for just a tiny while, so you can gather your resources, have a think, navel-gaze on life and the future etc. etc. X

I know i cant change the past, and have to concentrate on now and try not to think about the future as its so uncertain, but i can wonder cant i lol.

I am off tomorrow for a weekend break with the girls again, its a sun deal, i put in 2 forms and they gave me 2 breaks a week apart lol. the kids are looking forward to it, even tho we are all ill.

We are like leaves in the wind

We have a tiny amount of influence over our lives but we kid ourselves it is much more.

Ask yourself - are the richest, most powerful people in society where they are because they are the best people?

Not sure I agree with "We have a tiny amount of influence over our lives"...

I would agree that wrt to expression of genetic pre-determinants of various aspects of health / appearance, a considerable amount is 'pre-determined', but nonetheless we are in a position to modify this to a certain degree, depending on how important it is to us (for example eye colour could be modified with contact lenses, people adjust hair colour all the time, but if you're going to get born with a disability or an illness, you are born with it etc.)

However, I don't believe people kid themselves by thinking they have more control / influence than they infact do. (ie that attempting to initiate change is infact pointless).

"leaves in the wind" would seem to imply that you will be given your direction, your turns, your leaf's 'settling spot' by the vagaries of the wind in affect at any given moment... I think it is largely possible to modify the leaf's actions at any given moment. Now, I'm not naïve enough to presume someone can turn their life around in the blink of an eye, and change a difficult situation into an 'eased' one overnight, but we make decisions every minute of every day which affect what happens to us (IMO).

wrt - richest / powerful and 'are they the best' - could you clarify what you mean, twirlaround ? (do you mean 'kindest' ? 'most capable' ?)

I think we should definitely try to initiate changes, I just think that most of the really important and significant events in our lives are uncontrollable...who we are born to, who we meet in life/ marry, when we die, what job opportunites and financial opportunities come along etc

I don't think that the richest people are the people who worked the hardest and made the best decisions in their lives. I think they probably made a few good decisions and worked hard, just like a lot of folk AND THEN HAD A LOT OF LUCK AS WELL.

But the changes you initiate would be pointless if you think all the important stuff is 'uncontrollable' (ie. 'destined', right ?), twirl ? Why bother, LOL ?

I don't deny the role of 'luck,' but would guess that inheritance / family connections / education / decision making capability / risk-taking profile / willingness to change one's situation etc. would be better correlated to wealth than the concept of 'luck'. Being in the right place at the right time might also be put down to 'luck' but what's to say a person hasn't planned on being in a certain place at a certain time to stand an increased chance of a certain event occuring IYSWIM...

Just because you can't influence that much doesn't mean you shouldn't use the influence you have - eg using your individual vote at a general election.

I would say that inheritance is luck, what education you get is largely luck, what your family's connections are is largely luck too.

Yes you can try to be in the right place at the right time - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - but you can still try. But lots of folk who don't try at all are in the right place at the right time - don't you think?