Social lives: how do you and DP

[bakedpotatooooowoooh]

... arrange your individual evenings out?
I need some tips. It's a tiny bit as if DH is 'pulling rank' on me, though I know he would hate it if I used those words to him.
I put the children to bed every weeknight. He likes to fantasise that he's home for at least one weeknight per week (I've heard him telling his friends/parents this) but it really doesn't happen. I work from home anyway, so I suppose I've always cushioned the blow for him.
It has always been a bit like this but has got worse recently, esp since he's been promoted and I've been on maternity leave. Call me a wuss, but I only feel like schlepping out to meet friends if I've escaped at least the bedtime stories.
Recently I've made a few plans but they've all had to be rearranged/cancelled bcs of his meetings/whatever. And if I've made plans to meet another mother, this is naturally rather complicated and requires a huge chain of consultation. I am beginning to resent the fact that I'm having to ask permission and often have it refused if I want to go out.
How do the rest of you negotiate this one?

Thanks for the pointers. In his defence, he is a decent cove and would be mortified by this thread (so I will be emailing him a link).
He very rarely gets home before 8. By that time it has been quiet here for half an hour.
Yes, he'd love it if I went out then but doesn't understand that after doing the bedtime slog the last thing I want to do is get on the tube.
I started the thread in exasperation after emailing him to say I wanted to go out next Tues with my friend M. The calendar (we have one too, but aren't scrupulous enough) was unmarked.
This is what I got back.

'That week I have:-
Monday eve - mtg w XX, starts 5.30
Tuesday eve - talk at X, starts 7pm
Thursday eve - meeting at 8
Would it be possible for you to see M on the Wednesday?'

And so the life force drains away from me...

Could you give him another weeks notice?? I usually try to give a coupkle of weeks notice if I need to. Obviously it is not always possible though

We were getting to the stage that if I wanted to go out, I had to check with him to see if it was ok. He seemed to feel that even if he hadn't written anything on the calendar, he had first dibs on a night out. (so if I mentioned I wanted to go out, he would say that he would have to see what he had on that night). I started to get frustrated at this and now just tell him that I want to go out and he has to come home. If he has an important work thing then we negotiate. A drink after work doesn't count as something important.

However, he has taken to scuppering my nights out, by simply not coming back in time for me to get out. Like last night I was meant to be going out and he didn't get back in time (went for a drink after work blah blah blah). And he doesn't understand that I can't simply leave once the children are in bed - I do have to get changed out of whatever scummy clothes I'm in and make some effort to scrub up. Sorry this has turned into a rant too - would be interested to see what solution you come up with!

Our system works like yours baked potato. He goes out whenever he likes without checking if it's fine by me and it's a full on military operation with complicated negotiations if I want to go out.

We have no sitters on tap.

oh I see...and to be honest, the autumn/winter months are definitely the worst! I find it much easier to go out at 8pm in the summer when it's still light but come 8pm now when it's dark and the tube is so unappealling, it's a different kettle of fish.

Can you rearrange for Wed? If not, could you ask him to perhaps keep a regular night a week clear (say Wednesday) when he comes home early to put the kids in bed (just like he tells his mates/family )?

I've told him we need to have 'a little chat' (he rushed in at 6.15, our little faces lit up, but he hastily explained he had to change for a work do and then rushed off again in a dinner jacket and a haze of aftershave).
I think he has an idea what is coming.
It has been very useful to hear what people generally think is acceptable, and what is taking the p*ss.
I've decided I'm going to ringfence two evenings a week for me. Both evenings he will have to be home by 6.40 at the absolute latest.
Also, I'm also going to do my darndest to go out late afternoon this Saturday and stay out so he can put them both to bed and have a gloomy supper on his own in front of Sat night telly. I don't think he has ever done the two of them singlehanded, so it will be an eyeopener.
La-di-dah!

It's a date, then

I'm sniggering at the thought of the note on the colander MI!
My dh is constantly urging me to go out...trouble is, in Eastern Anatolia there aint a whole lot to do of an evening apart from going to the mosque.

Oh hang on....only blokes do that. The women stay home and beat carpets furiously (wonder why...??)

I find I get a bit funny about DP going out. Mainly because I can't usually afford to go out, and I know that really, he can't either, or else he should be helping me out. But, to be fair, he dosen't go out often. Both working shifts the opportunity rarely arrives (I think the xmas do will be my first night out without DP since July!).

What I find difficult is for it just to be 'sprung' on me. I will have planned the meal etc, and it wasn't unheard of for him to ring at about 5/6 and check if it was ok to go out that night for 'a' drink. This was the other problem, it never stopped at that.

He went out last night, for the footie. He did, admittedly, phone at about 6.30 on monday to see if he could go out for 'one' that evening, but supper was already on, and he happily accepted it wasn't the right time. I tried to make an effort to make sure he arranged another night. And he did He freely admitted that the 'one' wouldn't just be one, if he had gone out that evening.

So basically, I say that I have to plan when I go out for an evening, and I expect the same in return. He is always very good at 'letting' me go out though, moans I don't enough actually, so with our 'one day's notice plan' I hope that we will be able to row about it less!

I think you need to really make sure your DH is very clear about what he is doing on which nights so you can plan your life too.

he goes out friday i go out saturday - if i have a bldka fest planned for a friday he will miss his darts match in favour of me going out - as his is a weekly thing when darts season is on and i maybe go out once a month or something. so he is very fair and very accomodating

Well DH works nights on a 4 on 4 off shift pattern and I am a student, plus we have no babysitters. So, really we don't go any more!
We have a huge splash out night in November though, and dh does get to go out to his carnival club thingamajig in season (he takes DS1 though, and ds2 from next year).

But when it was feasible, I can't imagine DH refusing! That would be out of order.

My friend and I were sighing over the thought of a joint holiday tonight.... if only...

I'm quite lucky in tht I don't get the "pulling rank" thing which I do think helps a lot, although we do have a bit of unspoken niggle re who is the most important when we are both under pessure. Having said that, DH took a day and a half off work when our nanny was sick about 6 weeks ago so I can't pretend that he doesn't pull his weight.

We schedule rigorously and furiously - both have Palms with electronic diaries and we lie in bed and go through what is coming up (that's probably why we haven't yet got round to the third baby - not scheduled it in yet). There is next to no spontaneity in the Anchovy household BUT we both do manage to get out fairly regularly (well, once a fortnight).

Its pretty much first come first served. The one who has the "second appointment" either has to convince the holder of the "night out" to reschedule or go and sweet talk the nanny into babysitting. I think "just forgetting" to turn up and going to the pub is pretty unforgiveable, TBH and would result in "Words".

Oh it is always a big thing if I go out... albeit he is out every night of the week (except weekends). When I do get out I always feel like I have been dragged through a hedge backwards having had 15 mins to get ready after sorting out the kids - normally very stressed/knackered. As you say it is like asking for permission. I rarely get a 'have a nice time darling'. I know other girls have the same thing so I know it isn't just me who has this problem.

I agree with manicmum, either he's fair and reasonable about this or not. I've experienced that manipulative behaviour with my ex.

Now I go out more than my dh. He wouldn't dream of being late home without warning me. I'd hit the roof. If I've got the decency to cook a meal, he should have the decency to pick up the phone and tell me if he's going to be late. And he does.

He realises I am a nightlife sort of bird! I feel very trapped in the house all day and have to get out at least two nights a week. I was a single mum before I met him and after my girls went to bed I used to go out most every night. I had a permanent babysitter!

I go out one regular night a week with friends, add to that any irregular nights with friends (1 or 2 a month) plus we normally have a night out with the kids about once a week (at weekends) and one or two nights out just the two of us as well. Any less than that and I start to go stir-crazy.

Gosh how things have changed, I used to go out everynight pre kids, was always pissed and never in before 4am now I am lucky to go out once a month, I am just too bloody knackered but I am going to see Duran Duran in December with Dh and loads of other old gits, we'll be there waving our knickers at Simon and John.

I used to spend night after night waiting for dh to return from work or the pub until I went back to work. We then had a big discussion about our future together and ever since it has been very equal. We book things with each other about a week in advance and generally share child care tho I'm aware that he isn't that keen on bathing! It's definitely all about communication and occassionally leaving them for a night so that they can see how much work is involved!!

Sorry, what social life ?

I didn't think you wore knickers Hondadream.... These days belly warmers are more the thing and I think you would send Simon running a mile!

we don't go out

i don't know how people do it. my week is work - give boy his dinner - give him bath - eat our dinner - go to bed or i log back on to work and work into the evening.

it isn't really living is it. it's just survival. where's the time to go out!? dw goes out sometimes with her mates but very rarely. but if we do go out (rarely), it's together.

bakedpotatooooooooo, I've only skimmed this but in your position I'd be peed off too. I have a friend who sometimes arranges to meet me before the children (hers and mine) are in bed because then it really does feel like escaping, you're right, 8pm is collapsing time, not going out fresh as a daisy time. Good luck with your Talk, your dp does need to understand what it's like so Saturday will be good for him!

I'd be peed off too bp - my dh gets home at 6.45 normally (though he does usually do an extra couple of hours on the pc after the kids are in bed. Whether you work from home or in the home, it's unreasonable of him to expect to still have the work realted social life that he (and prob you) had pre-kids. Changes have to be made and it sounds as if it's you that has made them all.

The first thing you need to do is get him to admit(cos I bet it's true) that some of the post 5pm work things are of his choosing rather than strictly necessary. I'm sure that if he wanted to cancel/move them to do something for himslef he would be able to - he should be affording you the same respect as he affords himself. tbh, if I felt I had to ask permission to go out, as opposed to check if convienient, I would be furious.
I also think that him not being home to put the kids to bed is out of order - and I do speak as someone with a dh with a high powered stressful, demands your soul type job. Careers and salary are important, but not as important as seeing your kids grow up - or letting your wife feel she still has some semblance of freedom. I would negotiatie that at least one, preferably 2 nights a week he leaves the office at 5 - and he needs to make it clear to colleagues that those 2 mights are sacrosant except in direst emergencies. IME, a man doing that is treated as a wonderful person rather than the uncommited worker they would see a woman doing it as being. You can then choose whether to go out on those noghts, or simply share the bathtime routine.

Really odd that it has taken this thread to make me see how weird things had become. Thanks to everyone who commented.
We had a rather heated debate on the subject this morning (he had a hangover; I'd become incandescent with rage overnight) and a much calmer one this evening.
He agrees things need to change. He says he will tell the person managing his work diary that two nights a week are out of bounds and he will be home for bath/stories on those nights. I know/he knows he will enjoy this, and it'll be good for the three of them.
Also we're going to focus anew on the kitchen calendar thing.
It's not always as bad as this this: it's very unusual for him to be out six times in 10 working days. I think he's a bit ground down by it TBH and wants to make sure it doesn't happen again.
We will see.

Glad you got some resolution bp. One other thing we d is taht if DH is going to be home after 8 pm because of a work related thing, then I encourage him to make a night of it and not come back until 11 - it means he fits in his social life on occasions when it doesn't actually make taht much difference to me and the kids