Any updates on MMR?

[spookylips]

have anyone heard anything different lately? as just wanted to know before baba have hers next week as DP is still weary of it

Nothing new to my knowledge for about a year or so . last study was the big one done in scandinavia which disproved links again as far as I know!

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same as always- the research hasn't been done. vaccine strain measles virus has been found in gut and csf of children who regressed following it. epidemiological studies which tell you nothing have been churned out. people working in the field think about 7% of autism cases are triggered by mmr- too small to pick up in the studies done so far (or the complete waste of time one being done atthe moment looking at 15000 children in this country). risk factors appear to be a family history of crohn's and other autoimmune conditions. thimerosal in the baby jabs (or mercuryu exposure through other routes) may or may not have been an earlier priming trigger in affected children.

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any more news before baba have her jab on thurs

I don't know where you live but I find Trevor Gunn very convincing. He's opposed to mass vaccination.
I would urge anyone with any doubts about vaccination to go to hear one of his talks.

Psychobable (name change btw). It's from things like conference presentations. The 7% figure was a pers comm- but the idea that its a small subset of the population that is affected has been repeatedly stated in the literature. I have a link for a powerpoint presentation given by Wakefield earlier this year- it's a good place to start so will post it later (ds3has a hearing test now).

Wakefield's original research as been withdrawn as it is fatally flawed. Yes measles virus has been found in autistic children but measles is in the environment and the link with MMR is the debatable aspect. The most likely theory is that if the child is suspectible to autism then it may be that MMR (or even single jabs for that matter) may trigger it. The research on triple MMR far outweighs the research on single vaccines. Based on the evidence availble, I believe the choice is MMR or nothing. My job involves analysing clinical research.

Part of the problem is that the government are using the word 'safe' but nothing can be guaranteed 100% safe.

"Yes measles virus has been found in autistic children but measles is in the environment and the link with MMR is the debatable aspect. The most likely theory is that if the child is suspectible to autism then it may be that MMR (or even single jabs for that matter) may trigger it"

the measles virus found was vaccine strain- contamination is always an issue in any genetic study.

Wakefild's theory is that a dertain small subset of the population are susaceptible to autism being triggered by the MMR so your last sentence agrees with him.

You can download a recent PP presentation here . It's quite a good summary. IIRC he mentions the role that an initial loading with mercury etc will have - thimerosal has at last gone from the baby jabs dtp's (end of last year), so those babies may be less susceptible to MMR damage anyway.

Also look at visceral (will get it on google), and if you want to follow the thimerosal stuff search for walsh and metallothionein. If your dd had the 5 in 1 then thimerosal won't be an issue anyway.

Oh should have said contamination is always a risk so cautions are taken. Presumably vaccine strain measles isn't floating around the environment. (maybe it is, but contamination will have been considered).

and just got this from visceral

"First, the conventional wisdom is that measles is cleared from the human system within about four weeks under normal circumstances. There is no evidence that we all have some measles in our systems. In the case of the children who develop regressive autism associated with intestinal inflammation post MMR, they appear to harbour measles viral material in their gastro-intestinal tract. Moreover the measles virus strain has been identified as consistent with the MMR vaccine."

DOn't get me wrong, it's not that I am pro-mmr but I do feel that there are too many people trading on the single jabs for which the data is poor. We don't know enough about single measles vaccine and how this compares with the mmr. Furthermore, some of the single vaccines are purchased from countries where the manufacturing process is not the same standard as Europe/USA. That's why for me the choice is mmr or nothing.

~Sorry a cut and paste job- but it is short:

Dr Tom Jefferson et al. on behalf of European Research Program for Improved Vaccine Safety Surveillance Project.

Unintended events following immunization with MMR: a systematic review

Vaccine 2003;21:3954-3960

Absract
?The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate.?

Discussion.
?We found limited evidence of safety of MMR compared with its single-component vaccines from low risk of bias studies?.

Reputable single jab providers will tell you which strain of measles is being used anyway. When ds1 had his jab we were given far more info about it than the baby ones and the batch number was very carefully recorded in his red book (unforuntately its not listed for his baby NHS jabs)

I wasn't talking about that though- I was referring to the fact that you said the Wakefield studies were fatally flawed and then said "The most likely theory is that if the child is suspectible to autism then it may be that MMR (or even single jabs for that matter) may trigger it." - which is the Wakefield hypothesis!

The original Wakefield study is flawed but this doesn't mean the hypothesis can be dismissed. It is a plausible theory but yet to be proven. None of this helps spookylips because there is risk whatever decision you make: there is no proven link that MMR causes autism and no vaccine can be 100% safe. All of this leaves us parents with a very difficult decision.

BTW, why have you changed your lovely posh name?!

because my head exploded on a vaccination thread (not this one!) Gone forever. Been baka before btw- it means idiot in Japanese (and is a reminder to me that I shouldn't be on mumsnet arguing with people I should be doing RL things ). I don't really agree that the original study was fatally flawed - I don't think it claimed to be anything other than a "oh look we need to look further at this". And the whole funding thing just appears to be mud slinging.

But completely agree that it\s hard to know what to do. Without any other factors then yur best bet (asasuming you don't want to catch measles - some people do and I think there is a case to be argued fpr that- at least for catching it in childhood).

Was having a browse around last week and apparently they are trying to develop a commercial test to pick up which children have a metallothionein dysfunction- this might be the test that's needed to weed out the ones at risk- as metallotionein dysfunction has been implicated in problems with thimerosal and other heavy metals and MMR. Could mean using a different schedule/different jabs etc with those children. Then the decision would be a lot easier.

Of course to be introduced as standard it would need someone to sell it without causing mass panic and everyone abandonning the vaccination programme (oh whoops we did cock up but here you go we can test now so no more cock ups- they wouldn't say that- mind you they brought in the 5in1's without any PR damage so I'm sure it could be done). I'm holding out for it though as it would help me make decisions for ds2 and ds3.

gah best bet is probably to vaccinate and if you're going to lie awake worrying about it then use singles- but ask your clinic lots of questions first (ds1 was jabbed by a private GP who was excellent).

thanks everyone for giving me advice.. one more thing i need to do is to ring the HV to rest DP's mind.

btw baba caught a cold again this morning and is sneezing and got a bad cough..i dont think its fair to take baba in tmw for her MMR jab