Personal Responsibility - Alien Concept??

[Mytwopenceworth]

Am I alone in this? So many news stories about how the government should ban this and that, how people should be stopped from doing this and that - example, we shouldn't have longer pub opening hours because people will drink more and it will cause trouble. Credit cards should not be allowed because people will get into debt. No gambling because people will develop an addiction.

It seems to me that people need to take responsibility for themselves. People complain about all the ways that they can get into trouble and demand the government 'stops' it yet at the same time, complain about regulation of everything because it is a nanny state. Either we want the government to treat us like children who can't make their own choices, or deal with the fallout of their bad decisions, or we want the government to say you made your bed, you lie in it!

Surely what is needed is information, not regulation. Make damn sure people are well informed about the possible repercussions of their actions - eg credit cards leading to huge debts and then let them make their own choices.

We are adults, not children, why do we want to cry that it was somebody elses fault when we screw up?

I have messed up totally - especially in the financial side of things - I don't blame anyone but myself!

Obviously we need to protect vulnerable members of society from abuse, but imo the rest of the population should face up to their own responsibilities and grow up!! If you screw up you screw up and maybe, just maybe, it is YOUR OWN FAULT!

Sorry for the rant, it just seems like everyone has rights and nobody has responsibilities.

mt
rules not incompatible with responsibility if you share responsibility for making the rules.
so many people in the uk are still existing in a state of serfdom in their heads, still believing that the educated/ruling/elite class will save them from chaos. whereas in france and germany, there is more of a feeling "I would be a bad person to break this rule because I am part of the ordered society that created it. "
it is not just an illusion, it is reflected by the spread of wealth and power in these countries compared to the uk.

Yes,SB,its gross.
I am on a long career break now but working for the NHS,it dismayed me how many cases were/are brought against health trusts.
It's not like they're branches of Coutts is it???

People always moan about food in hospitals. It's not a fking hotel or restaurant, ffs!

oh well, call me right wing, but I'd put a limit on the number of children you can claim "benefits" for (benefit of what? Getting the benefit of the fact that my husband and I are paying tax).

I fail to see how people can carry on having more and more children when they don't work; expecting the state to pay.

You may think "it's the children who will suffer" - but would they have even been born without a benefits system willing to pay? There was a man on TV the other day who is claiming £72k per annum in benefits for 15 children when neither he nor his wife go out to work. It's not worth him working - he can't earn 72k.

All this surestart nonesense doesn't work. I work for the NHS and I know damned well that some of the families I work with put their cigarettes and booze before thier kids' need for new shoes. You can increase benefits - they just buy more fags

These people are typical of people who want their "rights" but aren't prepared to take responsibility for themselves. I abhore the use of the word "rights" in this context, I don't think they have any right to claim more and more money

I sound like a total Daily Mail reader....

What is this 'surestart'? Is that that grant? How can folks take that money and NOT spend it on their kid? Man, that's just so low it's hard to believe.

That'd be a dream to get £500 for this one! We could get a double buggy, a new cot mattress and sheets for its borrowed cot, one of those crescent shaped pillows for breastfeeding, those Dr. Brown's bottles for when I have to go back to work and the baby has to move onto the bottle, etc.

Hmmm,swizzles,Surestart doing some very noble and brave work.
I have seen many of their initiatives make a real difference to the miserable lives of some of the people round here.

I veer between DT Charles Moore style ranting one day and sentiments of utter anarchy the next (ie frankly amazed that so many people without a hope in hell of bettering themselves or their lot actually do conform to society's mores!! Dunno if I would in similarly desperate straits..... )

Yep.

yep

no, surestart is a scheme run in underpriviledged areas. There are lots of aspects to it; teching people better skills, trying to get them back into work, improviing their chances and their children's chances by attempting to lift them out of poverty.

For example, one of my friends, who is an SLT, works for surestart. They organised a fun day for fathers' day, which also meant she worked Sunday and took two days in lieu. The local fathers turned up alright - they had heard about the freebies - they made off with bags full of disposible cameras and other goodies, didn't stay for any of the planned activities

So then she had to measure the language age of children in the surestart area (she found that being in a surestart area had made no difference to them)...they had to give the parents £10 Argos vouchers to get them to co-operate....it's a load of bollocks, and the government know it doesn't work, yet they are pouring more money in

appreciate the sentiment moondog. I know where you are coming from, but I fear the noble stuff is only noble on paper.

Well,I know what you're saying swizzle I really do (one of our charming heroin addict dads robbed the nursery that does a fantastic job of bringing up his children as he is too useless to do it) but what alternative can you offer????

Honestly now-what can we do with these people?
Stringing them up or banging them up doesn't work.

Also,I don't think any government 'pours' money away for the sake of it.I really admire what labour have tried (and partially succeeded in doing) to do for poorer households.
(I'm not a Labour voter btw.)

am now going to bed before this has any chance of kicking off, but as a final thought, having come from a single parent family myself, having grown up on a council estate, before the days of Surestart and other initiatives, I fail to see what's wrong with good old fashioned hard work to get yourself out of poverty. My mother would have been better off claiming benefits, but she didn't.

Having accepted responsibity, I think she then deserved rights.

Fair point.
Some people are just too hopeless though.
Do we treat them like stray dogs or try and salvage something from the mess and avoid perpetuating the system??

(I genuinely want to know)

I see it all the time with work. I work for Health Promotion, and thousands upon thousands each year is poured into areas of deprivation through SIP areas (social inclusion policy). Great in theory, but in practice it is freebie after freebie, more staff and resources than you would believe, and very little change in health behaviour because, in the main, people don't want to change!

I'd like to see much more emphasis on responsibilities rather than rights. Stop the culture of sueing, rethink our commitment to the EU Human Rights thing, and face up to the consequences of your actions if you (or your offspring) do anything criminal or stupid.

moondog, I also admire the labour government for trying. The problem is, I don't think you can erase poverty. There will always be a bottom 5% as part of a normal curve, on any measure.

I think there will always be an underclass - there always has been.

I also notice from doing home visits that the people who the surestart initiative is aimed at have better tellies and better CD systems than I can afford. A case of priorities, yes, but how do you begin to tackle that?

oh now I'll never get to bed!

Paolosgirl - I'm right with you - people don't want to change

Moondog - I think if you can't help them, you stop trying and use the resources more effectively

Feel really depressed now.....

God,it's such a bummer isn't it???

the real bummer is that nobody will ever admit it's a no-hoper. There would be uproar!

All those people who don't actually work in the health/education/social services fields actually think all this ideology sounds great, and they vote for more of the same. Those of us in the know are well aware it's bollocks.

I was offered a job with surestart but turned it down because I strongly disagreed with the idea behind it - I suspected it would fail. at the time this would have been a promotion, so that's how strongly I felt about it. My friend who took the job thought I was a cynical old cow (which I am) but she's now desperate to get out and agrees with the idea it's bollocks!

I always get very confused about this attitude of rewarding or compensating. When the kids are little, we're constantly being told by the 'experts' to ignore the bad behaviour, and reward the good - and yet somehow, when children become adults, there seems to be an assumption that by rewarding the bad we can change the behaviour. I just don't get it.

Agree.

Well you know that I do what you do swixxle and yes,i amaware of howmuch of it is bollocks,and howmuch more we could do if certain hopeless individual got their fingers out.

With reference to children in particular-Iamstaggered by the fact that so many people couldn't give a flying f**k about them and will never even attempt a lot of what we suggest.

Oh god,go to bed,you don't need me whingeing and ruining your maternity leave..

How is dd btw????

Hey,good point pg!
(And I am a behaviourist in my thinking!)

hmm you're right. How profound....now I'm really pissed off!

At the end of the day, it's all about winning votes. Any party which told it like it was would never get into power.

Do you mean the parents couldn't give a flying f**k moondog?

Yes pg. Sorry-very poorly constructed sentences.