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An old debt has resurfaced and they want me to pay more than DOUBLE! Help!

22 replies

M2T · 20/08/2003 12:49

An old debt has come back to haunt me. I had a Barclay card when I was 19 (6 years ago) and still at Uni. I ran up a bill of £300 and after a few months I stopped paying the minimum payment. I buried my head under the carpet and forgot about it, I was young and stupid. I remember vaguely getting a letter from a debt recovery company, but I binned it. I moved flat after that. I didn’t receive ANY correspondance after that.

I have not hidden from them, I just never contacted them again. I am on the electoral register, I pay tax, I have had the same bank account for nearly 10 years! Even though I didn’t hear anything for a year I finally got the money and plucked up the courage to go to Citizens Advice and ask about how to go about approaching them to pay back the bill. They told me, as it was for such a small amount and they hadn’t contacted me again, it was probably written off, I was black listed and to just leave it. So I did.

How wrong they were!! They phoned me and now this debt recovery company want me to pay back £800!

What can I do about it? I offered to pay back what I had owed when they ‘bought’ the debt from Barclay Card, which was £420, over 10 months. They said if I wanted a discount then I would have to pay it over 3 months (NO WAY!) or pay the full balance over as long as I want. I said that wasn’t acceptable to me. They came back to me with this offer…… £620 at £40 a week.

I can’t believe the bad advice I got when I was 20 is now coming back to haunt me. If I had just paid the stupid thing when I had got the money together then this would never have happened. L L

Should I just accept the offer or speak to a solicitor. Can I negotiate with them?
This company could have got in touch with me anytime over the past 5 years, but they have left it this long so as to maximise the interest on the balance. I would really rather just pay what I owed Barclay Card!!!

Anyone with any good advice?

OP posts:
Noisy · 20/08/2003 13:32

M2T

IMO you should deal with this head on, right now!
Go and get the yellow pages and pick a local solicitor that specialises in debt. Call them and make an appointment for a FREE 20 minute session. I believe that all (most anyway) solicitors will give you a free 20 minute 1st session with them. DO NOT go to one of these debt agency companies!!
You CAN deal with this and WILL sort it in a way that suits you. DO NOT be bullied by this debt Company chasing you. Tell them you will deal with the matter within the next 14 days - get someone's name and keep a recod of any contact you have with them. Wherever possible back verbal conversations up in writing to protect yourself.
God! My pet hate id bullying debt collection companies!! Good luck and go get this sorted. They can't get blood out of a stone! Keep your chin up. Once you have started the ball rolling you will feel better.

GeorginaA · 20/08/2003 13:44

Not that I think your situation will come to this M2T in any way, I was just prompted by Noisy's comment about bullying debt agency companies - in case any other mumsnetters find themselves in the situation:

Never ever EVER let a bailiff into your home. They have no legal right to come in and take anything UNLESS you let them in!

Unfortunately (or fortunately if you're a bailiff I suppose) very few people realise that...

Good advice by Noisy btw.

katierocket · 20/08/2003 14:00

M2T - unfortunately I think that there is not much you can do. I worked for a while at the Data Protection Registrar (people who sort out if information held about you is incorrect) obviously we got lots of enquiries from people who queried records kept on credit reference agencies so I learnt quite a bit about it.
If you didn't pay the debt and it was passed to a debt collection agency then I think legally they have the right to recall the debt and add interest, they do have to notify you of this which I think they did - you said sometihng about remembering getting a letter? You said that they could have got in touch with you over past 5 years but did you give them your new address?
Noisy's advice is good - definitely put everything in writing and keep copies of any correspondence you have with the debt agency and try and see a solicitor to see what can be worked out.

Just for info - there is now such thing as 'blacklisted' we used to hear this all the time at the DPA. There are about 3 credit reference agncies that keep records of everyones credit agreements - that includes whether you pay well or if you go into debt. The info held in these files are used by companies to make lending decisions but the credit reference agencies themselves don't 'blacklist' people. Definitely worth you getting a copy of your own credit reference file - it's only abtou £2
go here for more info

credit reference agency

good luck!

katierocket · 20/08/2003 14:03

doh - I meant 'no such thing as blacklisted' not 'now such thing'

zebra · 20/08/2003 14:07

Citizen's Advice Bureau is another place to get excellent, free help. I imagine you will definitely have to pay, though. Better to do it soon, before the debt gets even bigger.

Janstar · 20/08/2003 14:20

I can't swear to this but I'm almost certain that after 7 years they can't chase you any more. A friend of mine had a debt that he kept narrowly missing having to pay every time he moved house, then after 7 years he just scraped in by the skin of his teeth and the company had to write it off. If you are nearing 7 years you might be able to delay it long enough by being slow to reply to correspondence etc.

Please check what I am saying as I might have got this completely wrong!

mergle · 20/08/2003 14:29

You may need specialist advice but you can (and should) negotiate with Barclaycard/the debt recovery company.

Ultimately, Barclaycard will have to take you to the small claims court to get the money back. They can't put you in prison or anything. Unfortunately, your credit rating will almost certainly have been severely affected by this and I would guess that a county court judgement won't actually make things that much worse. If you end up in court you will be sent a form asking you to list your income and outgoings and the court will use this to decide how much you can afford to pay out.

To negotiate with the debt recovery company you need to make it worth their while not to go to court, ie offer them what they would get if they went to court. They have to pay to take you to court. So draw up a list of your income and outgoings, look at it from their eyes to see if it is reasonable (eg, pocket money generally isn't thought reasonable) and work out what you can afford to offer each month.

HOWEVER, you need to be very careful because of the length of time you have owed them the money. If there has been no contact for 6 years then the Limitation Act kicks in. This stops them from going to court to get the debt back. Because they cannot go to court, they have no sanction over you and so effectively they cannot get the money back. You need specialist advice here to see if this applies in your situation.

You probably do owe the company the interest on this money, providing its interest you signed up for, etc. However, remember that they want some sort of settlement for this debt. On their side they have the ultimate sanction of a CCJ. They will probably only go down this route if its worth it for them, including the cost of going to court (paying staff as well as the court fees).

If you can offer more than what they are suggesting, then it may be worth getting specialist advice although you're probably better off just paying what they suggest.

I think that the CAB probably gave you this advice to see if you could get to 6 years without them contacting you. But a year really isn't that long to go without contact if you have moved house, etc. I certainly wouldn't assume it had been written off under these circumstances. I am suprised that they didn't talk you through the ranmifications of ignoring the debt-that was probably negligent and you could make a complaint, maybe even sue them for the interest! Waiting to see if the company will forget for 6 years is always a gamble and seldom pays off, it is an option and they were right to make you aware of it but for most people it will be a pretty bad option and you definately shouldn't have been told to do this without having all this explained to you. In fact, you shouldn't have been told to do anything, you should have been talked through all options and given support if avalible with your preferred course of action. Thats generally true of any advice centre.

There's not much point going to a solicitor as few of them are debt specialists-they tend to dabble a bit on the side. Apart from the 6 year thing, this isn't really a legal issue anyway, its a question of experience with negotiating with creditors, which an advice agency will have much more of than a solicitor. You might need to see a specialist or a caseworker. All CABx are separate organisations, so you could go to a different CAB and you really shouldn't get this same dud advice again. Explain the advice you had last time-you'll probably find they treat you very carefully. Alternatively look on the Money Advice Trust (www.moneyadvicetrust.org/) for more organisations that can help. Don't pay for advice either or pay anyone to manage this debt-these organisations are cowboys. Look for an organisation with a Legal Aid franchise in debt/money advice, as they have to comply with certain standards (eg regular staff training for the franchised workers). If they are an advice agency, they will not normally charge you for the advice even if you do not qualify for legal aid.

The bottom line however is that they cannot do anything more to you than a CCJ. They cannot take your house away, or put you in prison. Compared to the amounts they are used to dealing with, £800 is hardly anything (I know that's not much consolation when you have to pay it back). A CCJ will only damage your credit rating a little bit more.

Incidentally, it is unlikely to happen but if baliffs come round to your house, do not let them in under any circumstances as they then gain the right to enter your house using force at any time to settle the debt.

Also try www.adviceguide.org.uk, which is the national association of CABs website, it has some good stuff about debt. You were given bad advice by the CAB you went to but if you can, don't let that put you off going to a different one or another advice centre.

But go and see a specialist-I do work in the advice sector but this isn't the area I specialise in.
, although I can try to clarify anything if you want. I'm not trying to push the CAB when you've had such bad advice but they do have bureaux in most towns and generally, because the advice is nationally monitored, you should get accurate advice, I think you just drew a very bad card.

Remember, you are trying to strike a bargain with them, its worth haggling a bit, just use common sense (but do see someone first because its 6 years since the debt was taken out).

Good luck!

zebra · 20/08/2003 15:01

Sorry, M2T, didn't read your post properly when you said you had consulted CAB!

M2T · 20/08/2003 15:12

Wow thanks folks!

I kinda thought there was a 6 year limit on recovering debt. But I wasn't sure. I think this company has waited the maximum length of time before phoning me so they can claim the maximum amount of interest. It's not quite 6 years yet, unfortunately.

I will seek specialist advice (although the CAB's in my area don't open at times I can go) and I will pay it off, it's just that I totally and utterly grudge paying anymore than I owed Barclaycard (£300 + their own interest of £120). I have offered that amount, but they said they were not interested.

Thanks again folks.

OP posts:
M2T · 20/08/2003 15:13

I meant to say.... I'm in Scotland, is Scottish Law different in these matters?

OP posts:
3GirlsMum · 20/08/2003 15:18

Just out of interest does anyone know after how many years a debt is written off if you have had your home repossessed and there was negative equity?

mergle · 20/08/2003 16:11

M2T-You need to check this but I THINK in Scotland it is 5 years, not 6 that they have to take action in. I did work in an advice centre in Scotland for a few years but again, this isn't my area and it was some time ago. A phone call should not be enough to awaken the debt, by the way. I'd really suggest you don't put anything in writing, (and try to avoid speaking to them by phone) til you've seen a specialist. What you must do above all else is avoid admitting in writing that you owe them money.

Lots of CABx and advice centres do phone, email or letter/fax advice by the way. They might at least be able to point you in the right direction. Theres also an organisation called something like Debtline Scotland.

I can't see why the same principles wouldn't apply for negotiations in a sherrif's court.

Mum3Girls-This is complex, it depends whether you owe them capital or arrears of interest. Broadly, in England/Wales, they usually have 12 years to recover capital, but 6 years to recover interest arrears but I know there are exceptions and complications to this. Negative equity would obviously tend to be capital so probably 12 years. Also, I think some building societies etc are writing off after 6 years, not 12 for negative equity but I'm not sure about this. Again-specialist advice needed! (I'm on leave so all this is coming off the top of my head)

mergle · 20/08/2003 16:14

The only think, M2T-where did you take the agreement out? If in England/Wales I'd have thought it would be covered by English/Welsh law anyway.

M2T · 20/08/2003 16:32

Mergle - I've always lived in Scotland. So everything should be covered by Scottish law. If there is a 5 year limit then how do I go about pointing out to them that their time is up,??? They must realise this, but are just chancing it to get some money out of me. I haven't written to them and they don't have my address, just my phone number.

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 20/08/2003 18:45

M2T, no time but pretty sure the Limitation Act 1980 (?) means they can't take you to court for this. Search under Limitation Act and my name and you'll find some info I think it was a bankruptcy thread? Sorry, no time to find it. Barclaycard have written this off and will have sold the debt to a 3rd party (the guys who are chasing you) for a fraction of its original value. If you want to pay offer the original debt in full and final settlement. I'd be very surprised if they don't take it. Depending on the age of the debt (i.e. if it's over 6 yo) they CAN'T legally enforce this - i.e. they can't get a CCJ, bailiffs etc, but they CAN ask you for the money, including calling you every week if they want to (as long as they don't harrass). Anyway, HTH. Let me know if you can't find thread and I'll have a look later. Aghh, Scottish law may be different though.

M2T · 20/08/2003 21:20

Thanks WWW.

Update:

I phoned the National Debt Line tonight and they have assured me that in Scotland the limitation is 5 years. Barclaycard started chasing me mid 1998, but didn't 'sell' the debt until October 1998 which means it won't be 5 years old until October (I think!!). I do remember getting a letter about a CCJ, but I can't remember if it just threatened to get one or they had actually got one. It was SOOOOO long ago and I panicked and binned the letter before I'd finished reading it.

2 weeks ago I got a printout of my credit rating from Equifax and everything was peachy on it. Since 1998 I have obtained a mortgage, a bank loan and a credit card (which I haven't abused) and also Direct Debits. Basically the woman I spoke to today said that any CCJ's must be more than 5 years old and they can't make me pay or damage my credit rating anymore.

They are sending me out an information pack and a pre-worded letter to send to them informing me that their time is up. I'm still going to consult a solicitor, but it's looking like I have the upperhand.

I have absolutley no problem with paying what I owed to Barclaycard, but NOT double to some shady Debt collector!

Thanks SOOOOOO much for all your help. I shall keep you informed. Anymore advice would be greatly welcomed.

.... a small and ever-so-slightly worried smile

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 20/08/2003 21:52

M2T, I'd have thought it very likely that it's when the debt was originally incurred that counts, not when it was sold on. Let us know what happens.

lou33 · 20/08/2003 21:56

On the bailiff front, can I just add as well as refusing to let them in, make sure if you go out that you do not leave any windows, doors etc open. They are not allowed to force entry into your home, but if something is unlocked or open they are allowed to gain entry that way.

WideWebWitch · 20/08/2003 21:58

Also, the fact that your Equifax file is clear suggests to me that they didn't get judgment in their favour at the time.

SimonHoward · 21/08/2003 16:25

M2T sorry to hear about the old debt arriving.

Also glad to see someone dealing with it sensibly unlike relatives of mine that just try to run away again.

mergle · 22/08/2003 10:05

M2T-If they have got a CCJ against you the situation is different. Time limits to recover after a CCJ in England/Wales I think is 6 years, but I have a nasty feeling that its 20 in Scotland. This would only apply if they have got a CCJ against you, from what you're saying it sounds like they haven't. Otherwise they have 5 years to get a CCJ. The 5 years runs from the date that the debt was incurred or last acknolwged (eg payment). I don't really know enough about this area but I'd have thought that this ran from the date you acknowlged the debt to Barclaycard, not the debt recovery agency. Your contract was with Barclaycard. It would seem ridiculously unfair to me if they could just restart the time limit on the debt by selling on the debt.

Assuming that you have not admitted to them or to the debt recovery company that you owe the money at any point in the last 5 years, and they have not got a CCJ against you I think you're ok. The fact your equifax file is clear is a very good sign, although not definative. I THINK they link by address + name so if you have been giving a different previous address to the one that you incurred the debt at, this could be the reason for it not appearing (eg your parents address-thats what I do for my student years).

Lou33-good point re baliffs. I'm pretty sure this is the same in Scotland as England/Wales. Actually, you shoudl probably keep the curtains drawn if you are worried about baliffs-also, keep any garages locked, any valuables off the front garden etc. Technically, they can go for your car, too.

I would get help on this one but what I think you need to do is contact them to say that you do not think that you have any debts to them. Do as much as you can by phone but if you write to them, don't in any way admit that you might owe them any money. Don't tell them that you would have a debt but for the Limitation Act, as if you are still within time for them to recover, this could count as an acknowlegement. See what they do then. If they phone or write to you giving details of the debt and the date that the debt was taken out was more than 5 years ago, then point out that the Limitation Act (or Socttish equivalent) prevents them from recovering. Also point out that the debt is to Barclaycard not the debt recovery agency. Obvously without admitting that you actually owe the money.

Any payment of the debt, or even asking for a statement, is an acknowlgement. A phone call is not an acknowlegement but if you were to refer to a phone call in a letter, it might be.

It sounds as though your credit rating is really good. Unless your case is watertight, and possibly even if it is, I'd have thought that dragging this out could affect it, although you can get a note put on your equifax file to explain the situation.

Good luck. It sounds like you'll be ok though!

mergle · 22/08/2003 10:07

By the way-they always send out about a million letters about a CCJ. First they threaten you with one, and then they really threaten you with one. If you had got a CCJ you would have got letters and forms from the court itself before and after the judgement. If you haven't had that you're probably ok.

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