South Africans

[SecondhandRose]

This is a difficult one, I am bound to offend someone. White south Africans, do you think some seem quite dismissive/downright rude? She ducks for cover.

Is it not simply a case that some people, wherever they come from and whatever the colour of their skin, are racist, quite dismissive and downright rude?

haven't read yet but would like to thank you for putting the that Spitting Image song 'But I've niver met a nice South African' in my head

I'll never get rid of it now .. Gah .. over and over

I have to say having lived in Zimbabwe (neighbours to SA) that even there the white Zimbabweans (even the "Rhodies") consider many white south Africans still to be very racist.

And we mustn't forget that it's only been 11yrs since the end of Apartheid, while the regime may not be there anymore, sadly 'remnants' of it still exsist in some of the white South Africans who still live there.

weird thread with many valid comments

Can I just say that SHR doesn't IME post to inflame and that I do think there can be certain national characteristics that we do see and accept as the nature of that character when its outside its own environment.

For example I find Americans in the USA warm and wonderfully generous, but those I have met travelling have in general been loud and brash .. its a stereotype but its true

Whereas I have huge sympathy for ggglimpopo's excellent response, there are presumably numerous South Africans who were fully in support of the maintenance of aparthied, and indeed used to living a pampered life with legions of servants, BECAUSE of the former regime in SA.

I once worked in a theatre where we hosted powerful black S.A projects, and, sadly, had to handle awful, awful treatment of black british staff by a few white south africans who came to see the shows.

But we can't assume that all South Africans were suporters of apartheid, or are intrinsically ruder than other people.

Obviously there are countless courteous nice non-racist white South Africans.

perhaps a better question would have been:
Does having servants necessarily make people rude and dismissive
or
Do some white s africans still hark back to apartheid
or
Does colonialism affect someone's manners?

By handle, I mean 'ask to leave' if they really couldn't be civil towards staff / respect our equal opps policy.

secondhandrose.... sadly there are people who will treat others like "staff" whatever the colour, background, finance etc.

I used to look after my friend's son so that she could go back to work (about 12 years ago). We had a lovely arrangement between us. Then her husband got sick and was home for a while (I looked after him in their home cos they didn't want the bother of coming out and I took DS with me). My job was to look after T. However, once her DH was off work he started to tell me that I needed to do the laundry as she was working hard, do the dishes (his and whatever had been left over from the night before) and the housework. Those weren't the terms that my friend and I had worked out. I was there for T and to tidy what we used. We almost fell out cos her DH was treating me like "staff".

On another occasion I did a birthday party for a Promise Auction. The family that I did it for were and still are lovely. Their eldest babysits for me... but I digress..... The children go to private school. When the party was over one of the mothers sent a message to "thank the staff". It was their entire attitude when they arrived to pick up their children. They didn't speak to me directly.... despite my hard work, and they didn't even look at me. Fortunately my hide is tough and my friend and I still laugh about it today.

As many have said... there are awful people everywhere...colour.. creed, none of that matters. If you are ugly on the inside it will out. On the other hand there are beautiful people everywhere as well.

But again seeming dismissive / rude is a nature of perception which has to be grounded in the culture in which you grew up hasn't it? I mean how you perceive rudeness is different culture to culture.

eg Israelis seem rude / aggressive because they will stare at people out of interest .. but it is our British sense of privacy that gives it that connotation. And Indians can seem overly hospitable and pushy of that hospitality to the more socially reserved Englishman

I have no empathy with racist people but I do wonder how quickly & completely white South Africans who have been born and raised into a culture of government approved race hatred can be integrated into a non-apartheid society. We know that their opinions of black or other non-white racial groups are a complete nonsense, but these people have been 'brainwashed' from birth by their own government.

our perceptions of others behaviours are coloured by what we are conditioned to accept as normal

the him I looked after was the son NOT the hubby...... ewwwwwwwwwwwwww

Message withdrawn

I would have to admit that my participation in protest vigils on the steps of South Africa House, and work with many artists in exile, has given me a pavlovian response to a white S African, esp Afrikaaner, accent. I have to 'adjust' in order to really listen to a nice white s african, such are my precnceptions / associaltions with the accent.

I also think, that it tends to sound 'harsh' to a british ear.

ggg - yes, you are right.
That's why i think SHR should have based her q in a different enquiry.
And admit - in my x-post below, to the 'knee-jerk' reaction you accurately describe.

NomdePlume, excellent point - hadn't thought of it like that.

excellent post blu.

the first two

but equally totally understand your frustration glimmppoppo....

ggg - I'm sorry but I don't see you as a Rhodie - I see you as a Zimbabwean

Rhodies wouldn't have the attitude you do towards racism/race

My Mum's parents - Australians who settled in South Africa - were far more "racist" than my father's family (South African for many generations, although his mother, my grandmother, was English/German/Danish). SO it is difficualt/wrong to generalise.

Mum & Dad chose to leave South Africa (over 40 years ago) because of the politics and the racism. They brought me up to "blind" to people's colour and religion - something for which I am extremely grateful, especially given their own backgrounds.

I can understand the knee jerk reaction to be "anti" South African - it took me a long time to "allow" myself to be confortable buying South African fruit and vegetables once apartheid "fell".