So - what are all of you who are against the Milupa ad doing....

[QueenOfQuotes]

to stop TV producers and Toy Manufacturers et all show bottlefeeding as "the norm"?

I here people argue that if children and youngsters grow up around people who are all bottlefeeding, then they're more likely to bottlefeed their own babies........surely the same applies to TV.

How many young people do you hearing talking endlessly about TV programmes and 'idolising' people in them. They see these people bottlefeeding babies, and very rarely breastfeeding and IMO that has a much greater influence on them than adverts in places which are mainly viewed/visited by adults.

Not to mention the baby dolls which all come with bottles, and "new baby" cards - again featuring bottles.

There seems to be so much emphasis on "stop the forumula producers advertising" that IMO the other, more commonly seen, and more influential 'promotion' of bottlefeeding is over looked!!!

Already this morning I've watched Angelina Ballerina's mother BOTTLE feeding her baby sister.

All I can do is to not buy such cards, dolls etc and be happy to b/f in public. That's all.

I'm going to Spain next week and was looking at a website last week to find out what the attitude to b/f is there (it's fine). England was also listed and it was noted that for some reason, we are, according to the site "very pro formula" in this country.

But surely if people can lobby the Formula companies - they could also lobby the other places which 'advertise' bottlefeeding extensively?

They can and they do but never underestimate the influence these companies have in ensuring that bottlefeeding is seen in the public eye.

This is why there needs to be an all around approach to supporting parents in their chosen feeding method (whatever that is) and banning the advertising of formula is just part of this. Incidentilly the reason they were stopped from advertising originally was because of their appalling record in the third world.

It could be expressed milk QOQ.

But the emphasis ALWAYS seems to be on "lobby the companies that produce the milk".

I've never seen ANYTHING that's trying to do anything about the other - very influential - ways for showing bottlefeeding to be 'normal'.

Madmarch - why not say it's expressed BM?? How many times have you watched Eastenders, Neighbours, Angelina Ballerina etc etc (you get my drift) seena baby being bottlefed and it's been stressed that it was expressed breast milk they were drinking???

blimey - even the advert for "He's having a baby" on BBC shows dad's feeding newborn babies out of bottles! (yes I know if you watched the programme that it wasn't their babies but if you saw the ad and not the programme.....).

I'm sure there must be lots of media studies essays on The Portrayal of Babies and Young Children in Soaps, they certainly lead very odd lives in the name of getting their characters back to what passes as normality as quickly as possible.

Bottlefeeding is easier to show because then any old character on set can feed the baby, breast feeding would limit the flexibility of the story line...did Demi in eastenders breastfeed? I don't watch enough!!

See your point but it is only Eastenders/Angelina/whatever and not the Breast Milk/Feeding Show (Now theres an idea). Can you imagine all the bits that would have to be added just so that everything was PC and not offensive to ANYone.

but Lemon - as a former breastfeeder I know that it can be very difficult to tell whether a baby is being breastfed or simply having a cuddle.

If people can "act" being pg, and "act" giving birth I see no reeason why they can't "act" breastfeeding (I don't give two hoots if babies RL mum whisks them off for a bottlefeed off set),

"breast feeding would limit the flexibility of the story line."

Why?? Does breastfeeding limit the daily activities of BF mums??? Of course not - they're just too damn lazy to write it into the story! They don't feel the need to because we're all quite happy to sit and criticise NEstle, Milupa and whoever else for wanting to advertise their product, while sitting happily watching these programmes "advertise" bottlefeeding!

but madmarch - why shouldn't Breastfeeding be shown as 'normal' - it's hardly suprising so many young mums' opt to Bottlefeed given the number of 'popular' TV programmes which show mum's bottlefeeding and "getting their life back".

This is what astounds me! People happy to go mental over an Ad on the frontpage of MN. But "don't see the fuss" in the advertising of bottlefeeding which is shown everyday on our TV's!

The BBc charter does mean it is public service broadcasting with a mission to inform as well as entertain, which is why they do have storylines which are issue based and a resposibility to the audience...I can't imagine breastfeeding featuring unless it was a storyline eg boho, scatty single mum who is stand up comic comes to Albert Square...or Pauline Fowler's daughter in law has another baby and massive row ensues about bf v bottle

But bottle-feeding is normal, in that thousands of women do it. In that respect it's just as normal as breast-feeding. Most breast-feeders don't actually have anything against bottle-feeding or it being shown as a normal thing to do.

What do you think the alternatives with regard to children's dolls are, QoQ? A free fake boob with every doll? It's not actually practical to produce dolls that promote breast-feeding, when you look at it. Children like to pretend to feed their dolls, and although my dd is happy to pretend to breast-feed (she also pretends to give a bottle), other children (or their parents) may not be. Children's toys aren't there to promote breast-feeding, they're there to promote children's play. I wouldn't think that there's much of a link between bottle-feeding a doll as a three-year-old, and not wanting to breast-feed years later.

I do agree that, in an ideal world, more breast-feeders would be seen in television programmes. But this isn't an ideal world. And with regard to the men feeding their babies with a bottle, they'd have a job doing it any other way ...

If you listen to the writers of soaps talking on the radio I think they just don't think beyond babies equal bottles, they believe their characters would bottlefeed as default, just as they kill each other, have affairs, come back from the dead, use laundrettes, spend every spare moment in the pub/cafe...

ARghhh - see this is what drives me insane.

It's not an ideal world, bottlefeeding is normal, breastfeeding isn't going to feature because of x, y z,......etc etc

Yet we complain about Formula companies advertising - which is seen by FEWER people than watching almost every 'new mum' on TV bottlfeeding!

Why do baby dolls have to come with bottles? They didn't when I was a little girl - take the bottles away and children can etierh find 'pretend' bottles (if they view bottlefeeding as the 'normal'/'natural' thing to do) or pretend to breastfeed - don't shove it in their face to say "Bottlefeeding is what is everyone does".

I just find it hyprocritical of people to take such a strong stand against the Formula companies, but then not seem to care in the slightest about all the other major influences of young mothers,

But the advert on MN doesnt bother me QOQ, hence that Im not really concerned wether or not BF has it fair share on crap soaps. I do think that it probably wouldnt be as easy as you may think though.

What you missed, QoQ, is that the problem some of us have with the formula companies advertising is not the fact that they are advertsing, but the fact that they are passing it off as concern and support for breast-feeding.

I have no problem with formula. I have no problem with formula advertising. I have no problem with people bottle-feeding babies. I do feel strongly, though, that women who chose to breastfeed deserve support, and not be told on a breast-feeding advice line that they should switch to formula.

Television programmes don't exist to promote breast-feeding. Neither do toy manufacturers.

I'm agreeing with you QoQ, but i can bet if they ever do have a clearly breastfed baby on East enders, Coronation St, hollyoaks etc then it will be as a part of the storyline/character and not just something that happens...

Baby dolls have always come with bottles, and those magic bottles have been arounf for 50 years...

Little children do breastfeed their dolls , mine did..

ahh - in that case this wasn't aimed at you - it's aimed at those kicking up a huge stink about the Ad.

And as an aside -it's not just crap soaps, next time you have the TV on, and see a baby being fed - just take a mental note of whether it's being Breast or Bottle......

Considering how many young people you hear "raving" about particular TV 'stars' I don't see how always showing them as bottlefeeders is going to help 'promote' Breastfeeding

I must have been deprived Lemonice - none of my baby dolls ever had bottles

(and hasn't Breastfeeding been in decline for the last 50yrs or so???)

Message withdrawn

I think it would be intersting to have a bf character, just think still in Albert Square, would bf be allowed in the cafe? How easy would it be for the Mum, what pressures would she encounter given that they always leave their babies with other people a high percentage of the time, what about weaning, would she still breastfeed over three? Where is the baby clinic? Who is the health visiter (in fact is there a gp at the momnet?)

Ian's gf is wanting to conceive maybe she would be breast feeder...

Dont watch that much TV QOQ, but Im going to keep a 'bottle or booby' diary now and report my findings at a later date. (I promise not to watch loads of Discovery Health programmes )

Message withdrawn

lol at "bottle or booby diary'

I, erm, once didn't buy a pack of Tesco vests for ds because they included a vest with a drawing of a bottle on it. It seemed a bit irrelevant because he's never had one. That's about it though really. Don't watch much TV either these days.

Giraffeski - me too for the first paragraph.
Part of the problem of advocacy (informal/formal) about the benefits and general all round loveliness of bf is that, too often, I get accused of trying to make bottlefeeders feel guilty or not being supportive. Which, as I get a bit tired of arguing, is just really really not the point at all.
If our motives are so often misinterpreted, is there any point individuals trying?