Cutting edge - tonight

[anais]

Is anyone else watching this? I am horrified. Don't know how it ends yet (obviously) but Mum obviously never bonded with her child and the little girl has never had any love - is it any wonder she has behavioural problems?

Very, very sad

I missed the end of this - was it a more postitve outcome ?

I think it was telling that the mother admitted that she had never wanted or contemplated having a child so I guess deep down she had some reservations about how she would cope and these were only borne out by her sense of inadequacy after the birth and PND. Perhaps they blamed the daughter for everything that had subsequently gone wrong. They certainly had caught themselves in a vicious spiral but how sad that, despite all the professionals they must have encountered over the years, this was the first opportunity it was suggested that they look at themselves and how their behaviour might be involved. Was it more pragmatic to have this child, who may yet have other problems, given a purely medical diagnosis and "solution" ? I felt it was very unclear whether they had continued support from elsewhere.

As regards the therapist I felt a bit uneasy that he had never met or even observed Georgina or appeared to examine some of the fundamentals about her lifestyle which may also be contributory - diet, opportunities to socialise, routines etc.

I do hope they manage to turn the family around and have a better future.

Glad to hear it wasn't just me in tears! At first they were just for poor little Georgina, but then for her mother too!
The mother had clearly never really wanted Georgina to go into care as she made a huge effort to follow the advice of the behaviour expert, even though it was very hard going for her. Being able to show affection to her child was a breakthrough for them both emotionally and it was so lovely.
I too wish that parenting classes (throughout the different stages of childhood) were as common and thought of as necessary like antenatal classes. After all, if you get things wrong at the birth, that is just 48 hours - what comes next is years and years of being a parent!

I watched this and was in tears too, especially when they filmed her at 4, heartbreaking. Not sure who needed the help more, the parents obviously had a lot of issues, mainly the mum.

There was such a horrid atmosphere in that house, lots of shouting and anger and it made me think of my neighbours children as all their parents do is shout. One of their sons is on Ritalin as well, hope they were watching and it gave them a short sharp shock about their behaviour.

I was also in tears. Being with no friends at her 8th birthday party was heartbreaking. I was the same as Oldiemum in that I had to go upstairs in one of the breaks & kiss my two. Oldest was still awake so I got a big hug in return, & it made me realise how much the mother was missing out on because she couldn't show any affection.

I can't quite comprehend how Georgina can have been taken to see so many specialists and that none of them worked out that the lack of love was the main problem. To be put on ritalin for this I thought was horrifying.

I agree that it seemed to end quite positively, and I don't think that this was put on for the cameras (at least, I hope not).

I also found it fascinating and deeply shocking at times. I've interviewed psychologists about this - and what they said is one of the key reasons women don't love their children is because (hardly surprising this) they didn't feel loved as children. They just don't know what it is to feel loved, to be loved. If you've never experienced it it can be hard to 'do' it. Also, if your childhood was very painful or abusive - the mother mentioned she had no friends and her parents were extremely violent - the vulnerability of your own child can trigger awful feelings of your own vulnerability at that age which they instinctively want to push away so they don't have to relive them. Also, as a child they felt 'bad' and unloveable - just worthless people. Those are awful feelings to have about yourself, so they tend to get projected onto the child in turn. When she said how much she hated her daughter, you know she also loathed herself. I thought her self-hatred was so clear. And when she said that if she allowed herself to feel emotion it would never stop, I got the feeling there was a lifetime of pain in there waiting to come out. Of course I felt unbelievably sad for that poor little girl but it was a happy ending of sorts, I thought.
BTW that dr saying, "Oh yes, it's all going well. You don't need the Ritalin. What the bloody hell was he prescribing Ritalin for in the first place. It was patently clear that there was nothing wrong with that girl that wasn't caused by her parenting. Where was his apology for getting it so wrong? If the NHS spent a fraction of their Ritalin bill on parenting courses we might have a nation of happier children.

I missed the first half of this, but it was so good, I hope they repeat it. I really think they tried so hard to follow the therapist's advice, and although the cameras were there that may have forced them to change their behaviour. After a while it becomes a habit and I do believe that they have had long enough now to make it a habit. The cameras were there for about 13 weeks, at teh end they said 7 months on they call once a week, and the changes in them all were amazing.

To start with I hated the mother and the father, I couldn't believe they could act this way. But once I realised how many issues they had I just felt sorry for the whole family. She didn't want children, she had obviuos PND and it was a horrible downward spiral. This programme showed then clawing their way out of the spiral, and I was impressed at the honesty they showed. Once the mother had finally realised that she had to shoulder the blame (but also that she was actually ill, so it wasn't all her fault) things seemed to turn a real corner. She watched that video of her and Georgina at 4 and actually saw how she'd been - she says if she had watched that now she would have called social services on teh mother. To me that was the most telling comment, she finally saw just how bad she was.

Glad lots of others shed a tear! I was in floods by the end when they showed her brushing her own hair.

I agree with whoever said that they hated the couple at the beginning and really admired them by the end. Hope everything is still going well for them.

After having a day I can only describe as poop on a scoop with dd tearing madly round shopping centre and ds being clingy and wingey I eventually sat down and watched this programme. The video of Georgina at 4 made me cry and I spent most of the programme cuddling dd beside me (asleep). I admired the mother's honesty and can't imagine what her childhood was like.

I agree with many of the comments here about how brave the parents were (especially the mother) to admit their feelings so honestly on television. I too have experienced similar emotions to that shown by the mother and as a result have sought help from CAMHS (Children and Adolescent Mental Health Services). I think the biggest lesson anyone can learn about parenting is how your children's behaviour will echo your own. I had a violent upbringing and could see me following the same pattern. Thankfully I had a very supportive health visitor who put me in touch with CAMHS. Hopefully I will be able to break the pattern and learn to raise my children without resorting to anger and violence. Just seeing what an emotional wreck the mother was after giving her daughter the goodnight kiss demonstrates how deep rooted her problems are. I sincerely hope that she gets some support for herself as she is so obviously in pain. I think every new parent should be given the opportunity to see something like this.

I thought it was ultimately quite uplifting. Yes, the way they treated their wee girl was initially dreadful - but they were willing to change and appeared to do so.

The mother did increasingly recognise that many of the problems stemmed from her (and her childhood) and despite the pain involved, was trying to stop the cycle. I found it heart warming to see how much better she was at physical contact with her daughter at the end.

Yes, Georgina may have some long term issues to deal with as a result of 7 "wasted" years of love (or lack of it) - but at least things have improved now. The love she gave to her dollies showed that she was capable of giving love - but had just not been getting it. Hopefully, that cycle has now been broken. And she had a lovely smile when she did smile - she seemed so much happier by the end!

As someone has already commented, where was the "real" support from the specialists around them. Rather than just prescribing Ritalin and labelling the wee girl as having special needs, had anyone ever looked at the family as a whole?

I also thought here were useful lessons for us as well. Despite the fact that dh and I think we are good parents, there are times when we forget to be just as polite to ds as we expect him to be to us, or when we get annoyed without warning. We're human too and ds doesn't always know that, say, we're in a rush, or mummy's not feeling very well or whatever! So it reminded me to make that wee bit extra effort.

Ds is still a lovely, loveable, (usually) well behaved lad, who gets plenty of hugs and kisses!

support? In the same sentence as professionals? ha ha ha ha. No chance. The system doesn't do support.

Jimjams hey if in doubt, just give the child Ritalin eh?

This program really proved what I thought about the mis-prescribing of Ritalin. So many poor kiddies out there are being dosed up with this prozac, instead of actually being helped. It makes me so-o-o mad

Haven't had time to read everything, but I found the programme interesting and felt so sorry for the child first then the mother. There is an Open University home study pack that you used to be able to buy about how your own upbringing etc can affect the way you bring up your child it was a lot cheeper then the phone calls to the man must have been but at least the family will hopefully have a happier life now which is what counts.

We took dd1 to a doctor once who got confused between hypermobile joints and hyperactivity, and tried to give us Ritalin. It took us 10 minutes to explain the difference between hypermobile and hyperactive to him. Buffoon.

Completely agree Lil - thought the doctor could have at least apologised but he was just so dismissive of what had been a huge misjudgement on his part - I do wonder how many poor little children are being brought up like this and at times I hated the mother but also felt sorry for her - I hated her when she was threatening the child with no Father Xmas and thought she was being worse than the child but it was obvious from things she said that she had a problem with showing emotions and actually physically touching her daughter and this came from her own childhood and I was quite sorry for her when she said that she had no friends at school and could see this happening to her daughter - I suppose some people learn from their upbringing and some people just folow the same pattern and make the same mistakes.

My DP (who is lovely and so perceptive) said that he thought a lot of it was the father - when the helpful guy said they had dealt with the daughter he started saying that they can now start on his wife - she almost withered when he said this and I think he was not doing too much to help the self esteem issues that she had. DP was shocked though to find out that he had other children - she, for the short time we saw her, seemed quite 'normal'!!

Boe, did you hear the bit when the woman described how her father kept a stick to hit them with? Made my blood run cold. Also totally agree with you about the 'wife' comment.

Unfortunately I didn't see this programme, but I must take issue with all your ritalin comments! My 13 year old is on ritalin. We were told initially that his bad behaviour was caused by "bad parenting" & believe me, a constant drip feed of "you're a useless mother" does nothing for family harmony! (but they couldn't explain how the other 3 kids- 2 older, 1 younger- had escaped this bad parenting..)

When we finally got him to a psychiatrist who knew what he was talking about it was such a relief. He was on various ADs for years & only went onto ritalin about 3 years ago after much work by the psychiatrist.

It is very difficult to get ritalin prescribed- it certainly isn't parental demand. oliveoil, perhaps your neighbours shout because of the stress of living with a child with ADHD? aloha I am furious at your comment about parenting courses... no amount of parenting courses will mend the defect in my child's brain that stops him behaving like a 13 year old. Would you suggest that the parents of a diabetic child went on parenting courses instead of getting insulin? No, of course not. ADHD is a recognised, genetic, medical condition. I would love to wake up one day & find it didn't exist. Anyone who believes it's just hype is welcome to borrow my son, unmedicated, & see how long they last.

Aloha - made me cry as my stepmother had an identical carpet beater - 'with a flower shaped end' that she would hit us with in the sfety of the garden shed so that no one saw her - she will of course completely deny this but I can remember it as clear as day.

Tallulah - I was just shocked at the behaviour of the little girl and think that maybe after what had happened the doctor could have at least apologised - I am sure that sometimes it seems things said on here are a huge generalisation but they are surely not meant to be. I am sure you are a great mother and you have a great husband and you do not behave like these parents did - I just think a little bit of digging should have been done with regards to the family and their behaviour before ritalin was prescribed.

As for parenting courses - I think we should all have to go on them - it sure as hell would make a difference to the whole of society - I see lots of women telling their children how bad they are and I believe that children are a product of the way they are brought up and if you are made to feel bad it takes a long time to turn this round. My parents made me feel like a complete failure and someone who had no worthy opinions and was generally bad through and through - it has taken me years to overcome this and even now I am surprised when given praise or told that I am a lovely person.

As has been said on this site before - you need to have checks to get a dog from Battersea but you can become a parent regardless of who or what you are - but that starts us on the human rights stuff of should everyonek be able to be parents so I am just going to stop here.

Tallulah, I do not think anyone was critising parents that use Ritalin, in this case it was wrongly prescribed, this child had loads of brain scans, blood tests, therapy and nothing was wrong with her, it was simply a case of bad parenting and that its was people were objecting to. Please do not see it as an attack. I am sure it was not meant that way.

I think ritalin can be a godsend if prescribed for the children who need it. For a case in point see "my family and autism", next Wednesday 9pm BBC. My mate and her 7 kids. This is from the tv times so I know I'm not betraying any confidences, but she avoided putting her son Joe with ADHD on ritalin for ages and ages and tried everything. Since putting him on medication things have become easier.

Well worth a watch - they are the most amazing family. You wouldn't believe how little sleep she survives on. I've always been bowled over by her - and everything she just deals with (especially the lack of sleep).

But fwiw the little girl obviously shouldn't have been described ritalin, and there are times when schools are keen to medicate rather than adapt their environment, but it can be a godsend for some children.

As one who totally empathised with the little girl, I can only hope that it is not too late for her family to turn her life around. I have nothing but bad memories of my relationship with my mother, and it is only because of two long bouts of counselling that I can seperate my past relationship with her from the one we now have. Even after 9 years of living away from home, I do not see her as a mother, more a friend. I still do not trust her love.

I sat watching the programme and crying too. I felt so sorry for Georgina, especially during the video clip when her mother was ignoring her. However, I could see what a state the mother was in too, and could see how their lives had got so messed up. However, I am in the same situation as the mother, in that I had an unhappy childhood, and I was always determined that it would not stop me giving my child/ren love. My ds gets verbal discipline, but he is also kissed and hugged all day.

Lisz, I agree - I also thought it was worrying that none of the other experts they had seen had spotted what was really going on. And surely having been contacted to take the child Social services should have done something???

Daisylawn, agree about parenting classes. I have looked around locally and all that's available are the sure start courses, which I'm not eligable for because I live in the wrong place...if only more priority was given for this kind of thing.

Well put Tetley and Aloha.

Debster, a very touching post. Lots of luck.

Has anyone here actually tried to get help from social services for thier child? It just doesn't happen. Social services is in crisis nationwide. For example I know a single mum with a very difficult 11 year old- had been expelled from school (shouldn't have been - he has AS but that's a different story). She had an accident and was rushed into hospital. She was told she needed to be in traction for 6 weeks. 3 days later she discharged herself. She had contacted ss to ask them to arrange for someone to look after her son and they said nothing was available. Her son had been staying with the neighbour for 3 days and was unable to remain there. They simply do not have the resources to remove a child or offer help unless they think that child is in iminent danger (basically physical danger- georgina was obviously in danger of growing up with lots of emotional and psychological problems but ss don't care about that).

The programme did make me think that, in a situation similar to Georgina and her birthday party, that if ds is ever invited to a party where the child is often deemed as 'difficult' or similar that I would try my hardest to ensure that ds did attend as I think the programme showed that it is not necessarily the fault of the child and I would hate to think that at my ds 8th party that no-one would want to go.