advice needed please about alcoholic canadian bil

[hercules]

Dh's db is an alcoholic who has Canadian citizenship although is from Sri Lanka. He hasnt been in Canada for a few years and has 2 kids and ex wife there. He has paid no child support for at least 5 years. As soon as he reenters Canada he will be arrested for this.

He has been finacially supported by pil for this time and has travelled to several countries although uses UK as his base.

He is currently in the Ukraine staying with a girl he met in Prague and has been there for 2 weeks. She has phoned us to say she wants him out and he needs the money to leave.

He owes lots of money to various people already so we know we wont get this back but dont know what else to do. If we bring him back here he has to live with us again which is a nightmare for lots of reasons.

Does anyone know if there is anything we can do to have him forced back to Canada? We dont know what else to do. We've spoken to alanon and dh has been to a meeting and their advice is to virtually disown him until he seeks help.

Do you think that it is possible to report him to immigration so that when he reenters the UK he will be sent back to Canada? Will they do this?

Any other ideas?

he borrowed the money from various people to go there and has already spent up. 600 pounds in two weeks in a country where everything is cheap and free accomodation but this is no real surprise.
He originally bought a return coach ticket but changed it to a single to save 30 pounds. He asked dh to send him money for a ticket back later but dh said no. We've never lent him money and we are constantly amazed that people have. DH went round his whole family here before he came and asked them not to lend him any money but they still did so we dont feel responsible for the money he has borrowed. We warned them all and they all know his situation. In fact it is annoying they lent him it as we have had to deal with the reprecussions of the alcohol he spends it on.

Yes, we want him to be accountable for his own actions but he has never in his life been accountable. His parents have always baled him out and now he is beyond looking after himself.

a big thanks btw to everyone who's replied.

bump

This is such a hard situation. Think I would be inclined to send a prepaid non-refundable one way ticket back to London (so that he couldn't cash it in and use the money for anything else). That way, you'd know he was back where risks are "normal". Once back in London, perhaps he could declare himself homeless (and I suppose he would be as you don't want/need him disrupting your home life anymore), so that he could get some sort of government provided shelter.

My hunch (no basis in legal fact) is that his crimes are not severe enough that the UK officials would deport/extradite him to Canada, so that option seems a non-starter to me.

In the meantime, I'd look into the logistics/legalities of what it takes to have someone sectioned. I would then be inclined to take that radical action the next time his behavior becomes excessively outrageous or destructive. Hope for your sake there is not a crazy long waiting list for this action.

It is a nightmare trying to help someone who is so self destructive. And unfortunately sometimes I think you do what you can, and then stand aside and let them self destruct if that is what they're intent on doing. You can't save him if he doesn't want to save himself. And you absolutely can't destroy your own life in the meantime. Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Thanks early bird. He isnt entitled to housing as he's canadian and only has a tourist visa. I think you're right about his crimes being not bad enought to be extradited nor is he probably bad enough to be sectioned.

Dh phoned his girlfriend and she said he's okay now so no immediate issue although this wont last.

We will arrange a coach ticket for him when it is sure he has to leave and dh will tell him he can only come here on the condition he has no alcohol and dh takes him to an aa meeting every day.

It's not ideal with our kids but at least ds (9) will I hope grow up with a healthy respect for alcohol. We dont tell him it's wrong to drink and he sees us having the occasionaly drink although we have nothing when bil is with us. What ds is aware of though is the problems alcohol can cause if it controls you rather than you controlling it. Not a lesson I'd want my nine year old to learn this young but the guy is still his uncle and compassion has to be there too.

How much time is he allowed in the UK with a tourist visa? When does his tourist visa run out?

HE has to exit the uk every 6 months but has been allowed back in several times now.

Each time he reenters he gets another 6 months. No one seems to question where he is staying or how he is supporting himself or why he's not going back to Canada.

What would happen if you notified UK immigration authorities about him? They have some sort of master list that they check whenever non EEC people enter the country. Though again, not sure his "crimes" are severe enough for them to refuse him entry.

How long has he been primarily based in the UK?

He comes here legally and I cant imagine the UK refusing him. He's been here on and off for over a year now.

I think you're right. A year of coming and going is probably not long enough for them to consider that he is essentially living in the UK with departures only to start the 6 month visa clock ticking again. If he had been here for years, it might be different.

Would one avenue be to contact the Canadian Embassy and explain the situation? They might offer some useful advice.

Finally, I understand you're being compassionate, but I'd think long and hard before I'd allow him into my home as a lodger. Perhaps you/your husband can attend some al-anon meetings (for relatives of alcoholics) to get some strategies for coping with this situation.

Think the al-anon meetings are a good idea.

AFAIK, you can only be sectioned against your will, if you are a danger to yourself or to others. Even then, it's very difficult to get someone sectioned if they don't agree to it.

AA always says you have to let someone hit rock bottom and everyone's rock bottom is different. Unfortunatley some people's rock bottom is frighteningly low and watching them get there is horrific. It's a natural response to want to stop them from going there.

Dh and I have both spoken to alanon and dh has been to a meeting. Their advice is to say we [well,dh] love him but we dont want him until he is getting help. Of course they are right but doing it is difficult for dh.

He has hit rock bottom a few times and alanon said this doesnt mean the only way is up. He can continue to do this and still not get help. We asked them what happens if they never get help and they of course said he dies. This is difficult for dh to deal with.

He hasnt hit a bottom where no one is prepared to bail him out though although dh's parents have said they have no more money to give him and wont have him back with them.

Not exactly positive advice, is it?

But I suppose it's true. He's the only one who can get himself help. You can lead a horse to water and all that...

Of course your DH has a problem dealing with that. Anyone would. And in effect, he's being told that he might have to stand by and watch his db kill himself. No-one wants to do that. Would more al-anon meetings help him come to terms with that, or make it worse?

Ah. The bailing out is the difference between nearly rock bottom and really truly rock-bottom. Sounds like his parents have never allowed him to hit his real rock bottom. (Sorry, I know I'm sounding like an al-anon manual now.)

No, you're quite right. They have always bailed him out since he was a teenager. The trouble is when they realised money wouldnt solve the problem they continued to give money to keep him away from them and dh and his sister. Now they have no more to give.

They dont even ask what's the money is for as they told dh they are scared of the confrontation this causes. The other problem is by giving him money they have caused his exwife to become bitter towards them as she has two kids and struggles greatly with feeding them whilst they give their son money to drink with.

At least for now things are calm as his girlfriend is keeping him at the moment there.

I dont think dh will go back to another meeting unless his db lives with us again as they have given him the right advice already and he knows what he has to do.

I agree with Caligula about trying to get him back to the UK and then cutting him loose. I fear very much for that poor woman and her child.

He sounds very much like my DP's brother, who is also a psychotic alcoholic with borderline personality problems. He lived away for years but would always turn up on the run from some gangster, real or imagined. It wasn't hard to believe that he made such enemies though, but he also tried to say the family was at risk, which was another strategy to real them in basically. His family tried to get him sectioned and, like Cali said it is very difficult. He was eventually sectioned last year when he apparently tried to kill himself.

Alanon said the same thing to his family and that's been very hard for his mother especially. I can't imagine what it must have been like for her, her hair started to fall out and watching her go through this made DP furious. He is in a halfway house at the moment but was discovered in a pub last week so is on very shaky ground with everyone.

I'd recommend your DH carries on with the meetings, even sporadically as the support they give will help in the moments of crisis, which will inevitably come again. But what they say is true, they have to do it themselves or they will go on manipulating and using everyone around them to get what they want - more booze. You will need to be strong.

Also, an injunction isn?t worth the paper it?s written on usually, so we were all thinking of looking into getting him on an ASBO if he starts drinking again. It might be something you can look into too. DON?T let him in your house though, ever.

Sorry I never updated this.

Bil was refused entry into the UK anyway!!

He went back to his girlfriend where he's been since. We've just had to give him a 1000 pounds though for a flight to sri lanka as he doesnt work.

Oh dear Hercules, did the girlfriend go to Sri Lanka too? Sorry to hear you've had to bail him out again.

incase you havent read my other thread hercules, my friend has been chucked out of her hotel! And so the saga continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, we wouldnt have paid for her. God knows how he treats her, she was desparate for him to leave in August.