Maybe I 'm too sensitive, but this upset me a bit..

[Species8472]

Just been reading thread (can't remember which topic) about how to cope with newborn and toddler and someone described how great it is when you see both children interacting together, and how this reinforces that you're now a family, rather than a couple with a child.

I'm sure the poster didn't mean anything by it, but does this mean me, DH and DD aren't a 'proper' family? and can't be unless we have another DC (which I'm very unsure about).

Of course not! but I have to say I felt that way when we had only ds1 (it was 5 years before we took the plunge again) and when ds2 came along then I got what "being a family" meant, just different things to different folks I spose.

That sort of comment makes me wince. But i think the poster was just trying to 'boy up' the OP.

I wouldn't take it personally - of course you are a family. I would say the same to a childless couple too.

Thanks! I guess I read too much into things....

Of course you are a family.

People talk such bollocks. And iMum, that was pretty patronising, too - as if parents of several children are in some club with superior knowledge. Are families with more children that you have more like a proper family than yours, then? I bet there are things which Mums of bigger families 'get' more than you do!

People just like to represent their own situation as ideal - or find ways to comepnsate fo the downside. After all is sounds as if the poster in question was having a bloody hard time with a newborn and a toddler, so thank God there is an advantage. Every situation has it's ups and downs.

i am a lp with just one chidl and i still think that we are a family different people have different ideas as to what constitutes a 'family'.

Me and DP and DS have felt like a family all along . Can't see how a "couple with a child" aren't a family, anyway -- bit of an odd thing to say, but agree that it was probably well-meant when directed at the person having a tough time.

We are having another child soon but we never assumed we would be able to, & it would never have occurred to me that this is going to make us extra-qualified for "family" status.

I didnt mention anything about superior knowledge or anything to do bigger families "getting" things more than those with the one child-I gave my opinion only on my own situation, so please dont read things into my words which just wernt there.

My opinion of this situation is based on having been a parent to one child for 5 years with no intention of having any more during that time. I did feel that somehow we weren't a proper family as we only had one child, a feeling I made apparent to those around me on occasion.

Once I had more Children I did feel that we were more of a proper family, again my opinion based on my own situation only and never would I generalise about my own opinion as you seem so keen to do bleachedwhale.

Perhaps it has something to do with the individuals family background, I came from a larger family so could this influence what I perceive to be a "family"? again As I said in my first post to species and in answer to her question " but does this mean me, DH and DD aren't a 'proper' family? " I replied "Of course not"

Gawd!

What bleachedwhale said. People talk bollocks. Don't let them get to you. Of course you are a family. It's me, DP and DS. Once a well-meaning friend with 3 DCs came to visit and referred to our `gorgeous little family'. Obv she meant well but it was just so patronising, like we were a starter family, but hers was the winsomely chaotic real deal. I was quite hormonal at time tho.

I must say I didn't find iMum's comments patronising at all. She is just speaking as she finds based on her wone personal experiences. Her views and experiences are just as valid as anyone else's.

BleachesWhale is also perfectly entitled to say what she thinks too.

I think that if we put our thoughts and feelings out there for public consumption we have to be prepared from time to time to hear the odd thing in response that we might not always want to hear.

For what it's worth, I think that the whole "I thought it felt more of a proper family once we had another child thing" has to do with people finally achieving what they deem to be their "ideal" notion of a family. Maybe hearing other people say that grates on people who haven't been able to achieve that...?

It simply wouldn't even occur to me to think that my family wasn't a "proper" family because it's the family I've always wanted I suppose. It also doesn't bother me remotely to hear others say it.

As long as everyone is happy with the family they have why should anyone else care? Families come in all shapes and sizes and there is no "ideal". As long as the family is happy and healthy and works well for the people in it meeting all their needs, it shouldn't concern anyone else. I don't measure my happiness by other people's standards - just my own.

But it would never occur to me that we are not a proper family!

WHo wrote that rule then? if you only have one, you are not a proper family....

On the other hand, i dont look at my friends and family and think if they have more than 2 kids they are irrisponsible and are OTT!!!

I think maybe you are bieng a bit over sensitive and should not upset yourself. You are proper, you are a family and actually you are very very fortunate to have what you have.

"Once I had more Children I did feel that we were more of a proper family, "

Well, there you are. You said it. So you do feel that you were a proper family when you had more kids. When people say 'I only got it when I had the experience' it is commonly taken to mean 'my understanding grew and is now at a stage further on from you'. That is how it sounded, or could have sounded, even if that is not what you meant. And was hardly helpful. Anyway, if that's not what you meant, fine. But the OP did say she was feeling 'sensitive' about it.

Exactly Bleached, I FELT that once we had more children we were MORE of a proper family, Again just my feelings on a subject, you seem determined to see things in my words that just aren't there.

By BleachedWhale Mon 26-Apr-10 17:16:42
When people say 'I only got it when I had the experience' it is commonly taken to mean 'my understanding grew and is now at a stage further on from you'

That is you applying your meaning to my words.

It was never my intention to be insensitive to your post Species, just wanted to reassure you that Of course your family is a family! and that it can be and is for some normal to feel that having one child is some how "not quite a family" as I felt that way myself, in much the same way that you see posts from mums to 3 saying how their household will only be a complete family with another dc.

But it has to be faced that having more than one child is very different to having one( as is 3 vs 2 and so on) and the experiences that it brings (not better, just different) are of course going to be commented on, people derive emotion and feeling from all sorts of situations and in all different ways, and personal experience and ideal plays a huge role in how we feel and respond to these types of issues.

Life just isnt black and white and no matter what is said about our lives and their experiences at some stage we will offend someone along the way-the fact that it was unintentional is the saving grace. And I speak as someone who faces unintentionally offensive remarks on a weekly basis.

Again, truly no offence meant and my apologies if, Species, I did offend you.

Bleached-get over it

Not offended iMum, or by anyone else.. Everyone has different ideas on what their ideal family is. Sorry, I really didn't mean to cause arguments. Thanks for all the replies.

OK, just flame me now, but I get a bit grrr about these 'who is a proper family' questions - you all need to read (and make your children read) Todd Parr's The Family Book here

These discussions (and comments) are all about trying to include some people and exclude others and deciding that x number of children + male (biological) parent + female (biological) parent = a family is just unthinking. A family is (usually, but not exclusively) an intergenerational unit that lives together, with some members assuming responsibility for other members and exercising that responsibility with love, nurturing and compassion. Number, gender and biology are all secondary to this. But I would say that, as the (non-bio, if I must use these terms) lesbian mother of ONE delightful DD, wouldn't I? The law doesn't recognise me as her mother, but my family is founded on love, pure and simple.

And why do people never think about the children when they made these pronouncements? was the comment that the OP is responding to intended to suggest that the child doesn't have a family? of course not, which reveals how silly this is - DP and I are DD's family - she has extended family on three sides (her mother's, her father's and mine) - but we are the 2 people dedicated to her welfare (well, we try, anyway )

Sometimes these things are about people judging themselves more harshly than they do others - I've felt (a few years ago now) like we aren't a 'proper' family compared to people with two or more kids. I wouldn't however think that of another family with one child. Or one parent, or two parents of the same sex ... etc.

That said, I did feel like more of a family once family members #4 and #5 came along (they're small and furry - takes all kinds).

yes, it's weird that disjunction between your own views and those of others, I agree. For a good time (dd is only 15 months) I really thought that having another would make us more of a family in the eyes of other people - and possibly (if I'm honest) in my eyes too. But it isn't going to happen - will be going with family member #6 (also of a furry stripe) eventually too. And that will have to do. My family, of course, is perfect

Well Dontcallme and Driving-You said exactly what I was trying to say-Its got a whole lot more to do with how we percieve our own situation rather than imposing those views on another situation.

In much the same way that i think im fat but my friend who I know to be heavier than me in my eyes isnt fat at all!

my sister and brother in law have a wee boy and she says their a family which i think is right but he says their just a couple with a child which she feels is really insensitive it causes so much arguments between them. because he's one of 5, he is basically saying their son isnt enough to be a family their pregnant just now so hopefully the new baby will help him feel part of a 'family' the toerag.

also i'm a lone parent with a 5yr old girl and whilst i know we are a family i'm quite old fashioned in the sense that i feel a family isnt complete without a daddy figure i often feel guilty for her when all her friends dads are there and my wee girls asking why do they have their daddys but its everyones own personal prefference.

I feel a great deal happier now I have come to terms with the fact that we are a family - DH, DS and the dog. I don't need another child to complete the team despite what other people say!

Can I add a personal perspective here?

I considered that we were a "family" long before we had DD. As soon as DH and I got married, we were a family of our own. Which meant that, certain years, we had a "family" Christmas, rather than travelling down to our extended families - just DH and I enjoying a turkey dinner ourselves. Although we did do wider Chirstmases too.

DD arrived when we were almost 6 years married. She made our family bigger. She did not "make a family". Nor did she "complete a family".

At present, she is an only by choice (aged 4), and it is unlikely that we will change our minds on this. But we are not taking irretrievable steps at the moment, in case we change our minds.

But we are certainly only looking at our own feelings and personal circumstances, rather than paying attention to either wider family members or nosey parkers from outside the family entirely. We have been a family for a long time - and the number of children in that family is only a number, and not of relevance to whether we are a family or not.

Family means to me two parents and a child of one or many. The child makes the family!
Legal definition is blood relatives living in one household!