pregnant with #2 a terrible mistake- advice please?

[grallagh]

I have a DS almost 3yrs and Dh and I had fertility treatment in May and from the moment I deiscovered it had worked I was overwhelmed with panic and apprehension and the feeling I'd made a terrible mistake. We love DS to bits but his birth was very difficult- emergency c section and serious haemorrhage and transfusion- and then he had silent reflux and it took a long time before he slept through the night. When i saw the positive pregnancy test it suddenly hit me that we were just coming out of a long tunnel with our 3 year old and that things were so much easier now and I was getting my life back a bit with time for hobbies and friends.I felt total horror at the thought of going back to the new baby stage again, the sheer exhaustion of it, crying, sleepless nights etc. It's making me sick with anxiety just thinking about it.The obvious question is why did you ever go ahead with treatment if you felt like this. The thing is we'd had a hectic year of selling our house and moving to a new area, then my mum was ill and in and out of hospital and i was very involved with her recovery- she and my dad stayed with me on and off for 3 months at start of '09 while she recuperated. DH and I at intervals would toss around the question of will we won't we try for another but I see now that whereas i was very broody in the first year after DS was born, as time passed that broodiness faded. I had to make a decision quickly whether or not to go ahead with treatment due to needing to let my job share partnrer at work know and so I didn't take the time to really think through how MY life and my health would be affected by the demands of rearing another, but only considered the whole thing from my DS's point of view i.e that it'd be nice for him to have a brother or sister. When I saw the positive resultI wanted to have a termination but DH wouldn't agree and we argued that issue back and over but i couldn't go ahead with it without his support. Our relationship has become terribly strained in the past 8 months and now, at only 5 weeks to go til elective section, I am no more reconciled to this situation and feel that I will have to separate from DH in the coming months as he has no problem rearing another whereas I am adamant I don't want this.The thing is I was having some ambivalence about having a second but I was too harried and busy to sit down and really reflect on what my gut instinct was telling me. It doesn't help that I feel we are just too old to have a second child me 45 DH 54. We are as polarised on this issue as it is possible to be. I want to have some quality of life at this stage of my life and now see that having had the experience of rearing one healthy child was sufficient for me, given my personality.DH has no problem facing into a fog of tiredness and no life except as it revolves around children for the next 4-5 years. Having said that, so well he might when it was I who did the lion's share in the last 3 years but he still had his frequent golf trips away to the sun. Anyone considering having a second, if you feel any doubts, my advice would be to heed what yoour own inner wisdom may be trying to tell you. Sorry for such a long post and maybe this is the wrong place to post this- I am sorry if it causes offence or pain to anyone who might be longing for a second but it's not happpening.I have only discovered mumsnet and I so wish I had come across it before rushing into treatment, in particular this one child family topic as there are so many messages about why a one child family is such a positive family unit and echoes my own feelings entirely. DH and family members think it's chronic anxiety and ante natal depression and that it'll all be ok once this gruelling pregnancy is over but I'm not at all convinced.Has anyone else felt so negative like this during a pregnancy and it turned out ok? Please, just some advice and support would be so appreciated, not 'what did you expect, foolish woman'. Feel too low for criticism.

Wow, what a heard few months you have had

I can't speak from experience but I am really hoping your section goes brilliantly and you feelthat rush of love when you see your dc2 for the firts time.

Hopefully someone else with better words will come along but didn't want to leave this thread unanswered.

Any chance of counselling over the next few weeks?

Did you have counselling after the birth of your DS? I had an emergency CS too and it took me so much longer to recover from his birth than from my DD's birth.

DD was so much easier, good birth, sleeping through the night from about 14 weeks. I often say that if I had had DS first then he might have stayed an only child.

First thing, please please please use some paragraphs - it's very difficult to get through your OP .

HOWEVER, I would like to offer some support. I was quite old when I had my children (39 and 40), and ds2 was unplanned, and the pg came at a difficult time - my dad had just died after a short illness, and we were still coming to terms with having DS1 (they are only 14 months apart). I had two emergency sections, and so was looking after a newborn and another who was just walking, and ds2 was a BAD sleeper

It was a difficult time, draining at times, both physically and emotionally. However, we're now three years further on and it's a joy. They get funnier and more delightful, and more infuriating every day.

I think that giving your ds a sibling is a wonderful thing, especially given your age. Perhaps you need to get your DH a bit more hands-on when the new baby arrives - be kind to yourself.

Do you have anyone in RL you can talk to about this? It could be that you are suffering from pre-natal depression, and discussing this with someone might help you reconcile your feelings a bit.

I think maybe you are focusing on the negatives too much, I am sure your feelings will change soon, but you should try for some counselling.

I can understand why you feel the way that you do; I am pregnant with no.3 and it really really wasn't what I wanted - I have had pure hell with DS2 so far and it was just getting a bit easier. It has taken me a while to get used to the idea and only just started telling people in RL about the baby as I was so about it.

You sound like you resent your DH quite a bit, maybe your real issues and anxiety stem from that?

Poor you - you must be in turmoil. However, whatever you are feeling now will not be a permanent state of affairs - it is normal to be worried about the unknown (especially if you have difficult past birth/newborn experiences to look back on). At the moment your DC2 is almost still a theoretical idea, but once he/she is here things will feel different. Don't underestimate the power of the effect hormones/tiredness are having on you - the later stages of pregnancy are not easy at the best of times, let alone at your great age and with a little one to look after. I do think you should talk about this to someone "professional" though, and be prepared for asking for help if you need it when your baby arrives. Don't be ashamed.

As for the difficulties of life with a newborn/toddler - yes, it is hard, but it doesn't last long and it sounds as though you have a supportive husband.

Good luck and congratulations. I am sure you will feel very differently soon. Please come back and tell us how you get on. There is always a sympathetic ear here - and I find I find something to make me chuckle every time I come on here which can relieve the tension on even the most trying of days with small chidren!

I have to agree with Midnight though; you are giving your DS a sibling which is a fantastic thing in so many ways..you'll see

Yes, I do agree with Midnight too.

My DC absolutely adore each other, even when they are bickering and annoying the hell out of each other. I am glad that we have two DC and that easygoing DD came along first.

Is there anyone who will be able to help you when the baby arrives? I wonder if you had help lined up, it might help you with the tiredness and feel a little more positive about the weeks ahead. If no family around, is it possible to hire a mother's help.

I suffered PND and what you describe sounds a little similar, particularly the anxiety and that fact that all of this is impinging on your relationship to such an extent.

grallagh I am so sorry that you are going through such a difficult time.

I have never posted in this topic before - I read it as I have one DS (2.3) and DH is adament that we are not having any more .

I really think that you need to repost within the Mental Health or Pregnancy topics - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feeling_depressed or www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy

"there are so many messages about why a one child family is such a positive family unit and echoes my own feelings entirely" - this is why you need to move from this section of Mumsnet now. Yes of course there are positives to a one child family - but majority of Mumsnet users will have more than one child and will therefore be able to relate to issues surrounding going from 1 child to 2.

You are much less likely to find people here who are going through what you are going through - simply because the vast majority of people who look at this topic only have one child.

I think that you need to print your post off and urgently speak to your GP (and midwife/hospital doctor) - these two parts of your post:

"It's making me sick with anxiety just thinking about it"

"DH and family members think it's chronic anxiety and ante natal depression and that it'll all be ok once this gruelling pregnancy is over but I'm not at all convinced."

are making me worried about you .

Ante natal depression is a real and serious (but treatable) mental condition. Your DH and family members are not qualified to help you with this.

Please do a google search for antenatal depression so that you can reassure yourself that other suffer from this and can recover.

A couple of links here and here.

"Has anyone else felt so negative like this during a pregnancy and it turned out ok?"

I believe the answer to you question is YES. (I have no direct experience but suffered mild anxiety whilst PG and prob undiagnosed PND and through extensive internet searching have come across similar scenarios etc).

You might find this thread thought provoking and revealing.

Have you considered that you may be sufferng from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder following your traumatic birth and early weeks with your DS?

Do you have enough information about your elective CS - this should be a million miles from your emergency CS.

There are plenty of 40+ mums on Mumsnet - they have a thread in chat here.

Something which I have found useful in controlling anxiety is hypnosis (I did a Hypnobirthing course) - I am a big fan of self hypnosis downloads.

There is one called Finding Happiness in Motherhood.

On a practical note do you have pre-school lined up for your DS? He is eligble for free sessions the term after he turns 3.

Please go and see your GP and do not get fobbed off - there are anti depressants which you can take whilst pregnant.

Well done for such an honest post and please don't beat yourself up for not going with your instinct and TTC #2. Antenatal depression can strike regardless of planned or surpise PGs.

OP, I've had some difficulty getting through your post because of the lack of paragraphs but your situation sounds very similar to what mine was with ds2 ( feel free to search my name - I've been on here for years).

Having ds2 was the BEST thing that I ever did. I was very careful the second time around. I had a therapist on board as had been going through CBT to recover from ds1's birth, dh was very hesitant about the whole thing and at the age of 58 none too excited about it, and I also decided I wanted a high-risk specialist as I was over 40 and an elective section.

Even with all of that, at 13 weeks I experienced some terrible pregnancy symptoms and had huge doubts about it all. Looking back I'm a bit shocked but it was mainly hormonal and passed within a couple of weeks. Ds2 is just a miracle baby to me and I'm sure you will feel the same way.

HTH

jabber

Tabouleh that was a great post.

OP it was very brave of you to be so honest. You seem to have some to a point where it's a case of you being dragged kicking and screaming into bringing this second child into the world behaving very passively and according to what suited other people at the outset, but now some mixture of fear and Hey what about me? has kicked in. It's almost like realising you're drowning or about to plunge off a cliff. Maybe your basic personality is contributing to the sense of panic and the negative feelings? I have to say the sheer amount of negativity and the way you express it say 'panic' and 'fear' to me and maybe you feel this way because you like to have your life neatly predictable and under your control; no harm in this in itself, but pregnancy under any circumstances is a giant leap into the unknown. Maybe you have the kind of personality that puts others first and then feels resentful when you realise everyone thinks you can manage everything really well on your own without help or support? I think you should do as Tabouleh recommends.

Were you completely on board with the house sale and the choice of the new house and area? Did you feel any sense of control or was it just duty and anxiety when your mum went through her illness and you took care of her and helped your dad too? And when your DS had the reflux problems did you feel completely responsible and frustrated that you couldn't do much about it? You seem resentful about your DH, and I'm sensing that you are the person in both your nuclear and your extended family who takes care of everyone, a 'caretaker' personality, who maybe overextends herself and ends up exhausted and overwhelmed and angry that nobody seems to understand that you need just as much care and consideration as you give to others. Is there a pattern of you putting everyone else first and resenting the fact that you seem to be last on everyone's list at the end of the day?

grallah I feel the same almost as I have a different attitude. MY DD is almost 5 so the gap of freedom is huge. I have (had) a social life when she is at school from 8 o 15h., and the thought of being with a new born again is overwhelming.
My CS is due in (OH my god!) 3 weeks. I did think about the morning after pill for a few days (without telling DH), but couldn't go ahead with it. I knew I couldn't do an aborption, nothing against it but just can't do something so drastic, I usually takes what life throw at me and just get on with it. My reasons were that 3 persons in my familly are (were) terminally ill at the time, including my DH father and mine, and as I am 40 it gave everydody a bit of surprise joy.
Like you I had a traumatic first birth almost the same as you the only difference is that my DD slept from the start, which did help with the recovery.
A few months before being pregnant I was talking how DD will be an only child and that was great (we could begin to travel again, going to the movies....). We had a late "accident", we had agreed to let nature do its course but after 5 years I thought that I wasn't fertile anymore.. silly me! That pregnancy has been much harder because of extreme tiredness, and I am still wondering how to cope when the baby arrives.

I agree with the others that you should get some help and counselling. But you look like a person who managed to get herself out of many situations and adapt in the past, with help you will be OK.
With your DH you should get a counselling too, he might have not understood why you changed your mind. As for your familly, may be you should (that very difficult, I never managed it) talk to them about your fears as I suppect like mathanxiety that they see you as a strong one.
The move, the caring for sick people, the pregnancy it is a lot to deal with at the same time, you have all the reason to need a bit of extra help.
Good luck

Thanks so much to all of you for your posts and apologies for essay-style format that made mine so difficut to read.

Jabberwocky- it's encouraging to read your post given your age and that of your DH.

Mathanxiety- yes, I'm a bit of a 'caretaker'personality for sure and have a strong need to feel things are under control and life is organised. Chaos and unpredictability really stress me.

I don't resent DH as he has been as supportive in this whole situation as he's able to be, given that he's very stressed himself by my mood and bewildered too by my reaction. I never had any problem with his golf trips in the past 3 years but didn't prioritise myself in organising time out for myself on a regular basis and I've only myself to blame for that. So that is clearly going to have to change.

The sale of the house and move to new area was initiated by me so as to lessen my work commute and that has been a wonderful decision and has really improved the quality of our lives so absolutely no regrets there.

Tabouleh- thanks for the links and your advice about hypnosis is helpful.

Magnolia - I have been seeing a counsellor for a short time of late and the few sessions I've had with her have been good- CBT is also something I feel would help me, just want to find the right therapist. I know an elective CS will be managed completely differently to what I experienced the first time. The counsellor did say she thought I'd never properly dealt with the trauma of DS's birth until now so there could well be an element of post traumatic stress disorder in all this as I feel very apprehensive at the thought of the section.

Mamaloco- good to know that you too are having, if not on the same scale, 'will I be able to cope?' feelings.

Doozle -DH and I intend getting whatever help we need for as long as we need to seeing as neither of us have family nearby to help out. We are fortunate to be able to afford that.

makemineagandt- I'm hoping it's, as you say, the effect of hormones and tiredness affecting my mood to a very large extent.

MmeLindt, Midnightexpress and Washersaurus- it is really encouraging to read your posts saying that it will be great for DS to have a sibling as I will see with time.

Thanks again to all for taking the time to reply. Maybe when the birth part is over I will start to feel a lot better.

Also makes a few hazy optional plans for your section. I was terrified when close to my planned section and was given some great advice on here as to how I could have a little bit of control.
I slept with a cotton baby blanket for 2 nights and asked the midwives in theatre to warp the baby in it asap to have my scent while I was being stitched up. I also asked that my husband was given as much encouragement to participate when ds1 was bor, he took photos of the section!!! weighed ds1 and also got him in a nappy and wrapped in the blanket.
Some theatre staff won't be as accomodating but it doesn't hurt to ask.

If comfortable with it ask for skin to skin asap after the birth, whether you plan to breastfeed or not skin to skin is wonderful for bonding

Please speak to your gp before the birth. I had very bad pnd with my twins 10 yrs ago and then again with dd4. When pregnant with ds1 I was so worried I would be the same again and not bond with him I was given hormone levelling suppositories for 6 weeks after birth to help balance out my hormones and possibly avoid bad pnd again. It did work for me along with an excellent support network.
Do you have family support apart from your dh?

oh blimey i meant wrap not warp

Glad that you are sounding a bit more positive today.

If it helps, I can remember looking at my friend when she told me how fab her elective CS was and thinking that we must have our wires crossed. It was inconceivable to me that someone could find a CS a good thing, I was so traumatised by mine.

I got pregnant last year (totally unplanned) and it was one of the biggest issues that I had, the thought of going through another birth. Aside from the fact that we really did not want a third DC. As it happens I miscarried so I did not have to deal with the issues that I had concerning pregnancy and birthing. I might at some point speak to someone about it. I think that even years after the event, it would be a good thing to do.

There is a support thread on MN about traumatic births, perhaps you could look there?

Yes, I would echo Mme Lindt's comments. I had a traumatic experience with the birth of DS2, three years ago now, which has led to another health issue. I found myself talking to a nurse about it a few months ago and almost dissolved, and realised that I am still quite traumatised and angry about what happened. This may not be the ideal time if you are 37 weeks pg of course, but when the time feels right I do think it might help to discuss your first birth experience with someone.

But I'm glad you're feeling a bit better today. Have a happy new year, and (should have mentioned this yesterday) welcome to Mumsnet - I'm sure you'll find loads of support here.

Should add, mine was an emergency section, not a planned one, and I have heard many many good things about electives, especially from people who have experienced both and couldn't believe how much more positive their elective CS was.

I've only just seen this thread.

It's true that most people (like me) who hang around the one child family topic have only one child and probably don't have much to say about the transition from one child to two. But, even so, several things in the OP ring a bell. I was/am an older mum who got pregnant after lots of medical intervention. I had spent a lot of time lurking on a fertility chat site and had prepared myself so well for the treatment not working and a life of childlessness that the pregnancy was a huge shock and I did feel a sense of panic.

I'm glad that you're receiving counselling, OP, and hope it helps you.

Thanks for your post, it struck a lot of chords with me.

Please be reassured that some women do feel just like yourself. I am one of them.

I think we are very pressurised to have more than one child, from lots of external sources and sometimes forget what we want ourselves.

I found myself in a similar position and realised that i was very happy with one. Counselling has made me realise what is important to me. I have gone through similar anguish to yourself.

I am concerned that you have been pressurised into this decision, as really it is only yours to make. I think you are right to take your feelings seriously and not just dismiss them.
There is one other option open to you. Adoption, which obviously has lots of emotion tied to it too.

Also maybe a nanny (if you can afford it) and back to work soon after, may be a life saver.
I think just this experience itself must be very traumatic, and that you will need some couples counselling in the near future.

I think talking about it and having it acknowledged really helps you deal with the situation.