How do people afford more than one child in the South East of England?

[messalina]

Have just been reading some of the threads about only children and wondered whether many people out there decided not to have a second or third child for financial reasons. We live in the South-East and have one child who is nearly one. I would quite like a second one, but couldn't afford it till DC1 is at least four and nearly in school. I can't afford to work FT and pay two lots of childcare and not working or working P/T isn't financially viable either. Catch 22. I am quite angry about this situation because both my DH and I are professional and successful people and (what a joke!) higher rate tax payers. And yet, because of the cost of housing, childcare and living in the UK, and especially in the S-E (add to this the cost of commuting to London for my DH), we are wondering how ON EARTH people afford it. We like enjoying ourselves but have one fairly modest foreign holiday every 12-18 months, two small cars, and probably go out to dinner together once every six weeks. I don't call this extravagant. It makes me so cross that our government is so useless at funding childcare. Are there people with similar stories out there? And families who do manage financially, and if so how much disposable income do they reckon you need a month to survive and have a tiny bit of fun? Sorry to ask such a vulgar question, but I would be seriously interested to know.

i know, i had to wait 8 years to afford number two.

i live in the SE and am 33 weeks PG with DC2

how are we doing it? Well, on a bit of a wing and prayer TBH. We both work FT and i will be having 7 months mat leave - DC1 has just turned 3

we are getting a nanny as 2 lots of nursery fees wouldn't be an option (£2k per month)

We have been saving - not loads but a wee bit

we have recylced a lot of stuff from DC1 so have saved £££ this time around

you can't be angry - sit down and look at your finances and take it from there

Are you having DC1 at home whilst on maternity leave? Have looked into nannies but I worked out that it would still come to about 1.5 grand at least every month, probably more, and you have to give them money to take the kids out on excursions or the older one goes mad cooped up in the house. I think what we will have to do is wait until DC1 is in school so childcare costs should reduce quite a bit.

he will be in nursery 2 days per week which we are only managing to do because i still get my childcare vouchers from my employer and the 12.5 hours funding he gets from the Govt - otherwise he would be at home

dont forget once they hit 3 years nursery is played for by goverment (well some of it). We have nearly 5 years between our girls for this reason. Im lucky i have help from family when working.

we go out very rarely (maybe twice this year) and have one car. No foregin holidays just camping (kinda pointless with littlies anyway, Dorset is just as alien as France to them). tax credits make up most of our income. cutting all this away, it is possible to manage (so far!)

I'm happy to cope with the less fun lifestyle as i anticipate in the long run it will be more fun having 2 (or more) kids.

but yes, the south east is bloody expensive.

Eating out and foreign holidays became a thing of the past once we had one child. We struggle to pay the mortgage on a tiny house, run one car and had a very cheap holiday this year. I am expecting number 2, we can't afford it but I will be 37 later this year so I feel I am in the last chance saloon.

I am hoping once my youngest starts school we can increase our earnings and have a better quality of life.

Remember that lots of (lucky) famillies have relatives on hand to give free childcare and in the long run, they are the ones who benefit the most.
Modern society just makes it very difficult to have large famillies anymore .

Two famillies around my estate have 6 children each and the grandparents live in the same house (only 4 bedrooms and one has a granny annexe), but it means that the parents can both go to work and not pay out anything for childcare.
But on the other hand they NEVER go on holiday and the children are not bothered by this, they just do daytrips or go and stay with relatives.
It can be done, but lots of sacrifices have to be made. Space, privacy and holidays.

Hahaha at the idea of life getting easier once they are at school! Remember that day nurseries are set up for parents' convenience, whereas schools most definitely aren't. If you are seriously planning to use school as a form of childcare you are going to have a very rude awakening.

As to how people do it:

You reduce the cost of childcare by changing your job, your work patterns or your hours, you swop childcare with other people, you find cheaper childcare (it does exist). If you get eg a nannyshare, childcare costs for two dc are not that much greater than for one. Or you find a nanny who has her own child, which counts as a sort of nannyshare.

Alternatively you can reduce outgoings by moving to a cheaper area, downsizing, or buying a house that needs work and doing it up slowly as and when you can afford it. Or you sell a car, or cut back on holidays. Do a Martin Lewis-type makeover and see how much you could cut back.

It can be done (we have three dc, live in central London and are not higher rate taxpayers, ie we're presumably doing it on less than you). But it sounds like you probably can't do it and also maintain your current lifestyle, so you need to make a decision about how much of a priority having a second child really is.

The homes are owned by the grandparents by the way, so they don't have to pay out for a mortgage.
But the kids don't got without and have new bikes every two years and Ipods each for the older 4 children.

I have grandparents to help with childcare, no holidays at all, small mortgage (and small house , some nifty selling on e-bay and nct sales to de-junk and make a few ££, bills are down to the cheapest suppliers, claim the right amount of tax credits, bit of meal planning and 'eeeking' out what we have in the cupboards, eat out every other month and even then we go somewhere cheap.

But I agree with rubyslippers about doing it on a wing and prayer.

We live in the South East and it is a very expensive area. My dh works full time and I work PT. We have one car, my employment is in walking distance of our home. We are very fortunate that my f-i-l offered to look after our 2 dds while I go to work. We are expecting our 3dc in January. We don't live a lavish lifestyle, but this year we are having 4 holidays, incl. 2 trips abroad. Mind you one of them is to stay with friends in The Netherlands, so that makes it cheaper. It can be done, but obviously we are lucky to not have to pay a large amount for childcare and we don't go out a lot.

Give up things like the large house, extra car, holidays, new clothes, makeup etc?
What % of one salary is the mortgage. Thats obviously the biggest expense.

I fully understand your frustration. We have two kids. Always wanted a third. But, simply couldn't/can't afford it without packing in my job, which I am not prepared to do.

'And families who do manage financially, and if so how much disposable income do they reckon you need a month to survive and have a tiny bit of fun? Sorry to ask such a vulgar question, but I would be seriously interested to know.'

we're not in the south-east but house prices are 8 times a normal persons salary and food and electrcity and gas is the same as the south east.
We just budget like mad. I do SAH so babies don't lose a salary and there's no childcare costs. dh is on a very low income (under 20K) but we just budget. We've always been that way so never did buy or rent based on 2 salaries or relied on 2 salaries.
Could you move further away or change jobs?

How do people do it? IME the ones where you wonder have one of: Free money from parents to wipe out the mortgage, had kids late in life so they've got tons of savings and have been promoted well at work, free childcare from parents or a 'stick it on the mortage debt' attitude. For the rest of us, we cut our cloth so to speak.

You do have control over this, there is no point getting angry, do something. If you just want money for fun then make sure you are on the cheapest suppliers, sell all your junk, meal plan, shop carefully etc. If you need a bit more evaluate what you need, probably don't need two cars, sky TV, mobile phone contracts, gym memberships, foreign holidays, monitored house alarms, car breakdown membership for instance.

If that isn't going to do it and you don't live there already then get more radical, think about moving to a cheaper area, smaller house, changing jobs. There are ways.

For us, I saved like mad while trying to get pregnant and we now live on one income, we have no spare money and have holidays and big purchases like car seats out of the savings, but once they are gone, they are gone and that is scary as I want 3 DC (have 2).

There's no point posting our income as it's not relevant without knowing our mortgage size and type of house we live in but 50% of our money goe son the mortgage and we each have £100 a month to spend on what we want, I always spend all of mine and want more but it does. My gym membership and contract mobile are a thing of the past.

DH and I bought our (small) house when he was on less than he is now. We have always lived on one wage, we are used to it. When I go to work it'll be a bonus. In a nutshell, outgoings need to be cut back. I know people who think nothing of getting a car on HP - £200-300 down the drain IMO. Again, SKY, credit cards, meals out, gyms - the list is endless. We have a tiny house but will 'upgrade' when the prices settle abit more. We would never survive if we had bought a big house though and lived on 2 wages.

I live in London and we had 3 children in 3 years. Had to give up my teaching career after 9 years) and we have to rent. But the area is good as are the schools.

My DH does have a good job but we have to go without, budget like mad and use a credit card carefully when it's needed.

We have had to manage but if we moved away from London my DH would never have the opportunities to make more money for us as his career progresses ( he is 28 and I'm 37) but I've given up everything I worked for which is against my principles.

It's a bit of a nightmare but I see it as a trade off I suppose. Everything comes with a price and in my case that is my career, independence, a home of our own and my health ( I have a pregnancy complication which means I need surgery). I don;t come from London and don't enjoy the city much but have to stay here for the time being.

You have to weight up if it's worth it or not for a larger family. I don't know yet- ask me in 20 years!!!

it's the cost of childcare. Even on a middle management salary, childcare for 3 is out of the question. After 2 kids, the government don't provide any funding for the third child.

It just wasn't worth my returning to work - all my wages would just go on childcare.

We live in the Southwest, I had dd almost eight years ago and for lots of reasons, some of which are financial we have not been able to have another. My mum is about to move down and then we may be able to afford another child but doubt it will happen. One of my biggest regrets and a cause of much pain.

'IME the ones where you wonder have one of: Free money from parents to wipe out the mortgage, had kids late in life so they've got tons of savings and have been promoted well at work, free childcare from parents or a 'stick it on the mortage debt' attitude.'

Not the case here. Had my first at 23, last at 35. No help and a mortgage.
Its partly why I remained a SAH because of childcare costs.
But you lose out elsewhere. We've never had a holiday. have had to be carless for years. Wear old and unfashionable clothes and don't go out. Unless you're on some stonking salary something has to give.
There are times I wonder if I picked the right path. I am tired of being skint, of having people snigger at my clothes (happenend today) and hearing about holidays and travel plans I can never have. But I have 4 children which will probably mean more when I'm old and grey than money could have (if they don't all bugger off of course )
I think its do-able but you have to give up a lot too.
To the OP, after mortgage and bills we have no disposable income left (bills include food) so scary if something breaks. DH earns 20K a year. Mortgage is about 36% of this. But we do get CTC as well, as does everyone whose income is below about 50K. You might find with 2 kids you can get CTC despite your DH being a high earner plus maybe help with childcare)