Completely new to this - can experienced folks guide me?

[FrozenNorth]

Our two DDs will no longer be cared for by our lovely nanny from next spring onwards. By then, DD1 will be 2.5 years and DD2 will be 1 year. I'm considering nursery care as an alternative, but have so many fears and questions about it so was wondering if anyone could help me?

I'm wondering how I go about chosing a nursery - obviously they'll need to have spaces, but what criteria do I use? Does an Ofsted report matter at all? What things should I look out for?

I'm also wondering how likely it is that I'll be able to place both DDs in the same setting. Am I right in thinking that they're unlikely to see much of each other during the day anyhow?

I have a rough idea about costs (live outside London, in the North) but would anyone be willing to share the hours and cost that their family accrues?

Finally, please tell me this is going to be okay. I'm terrified about leaving DDs alone in a strange setting, and terrified that we're putting financial necessity before our daughters' happiness. What should a nursery do to help them settle in?

Sorry for all the questions. Thank you in advance for any replies.

I found 2 nursery places to be similar cost to a nanny.
Only nanny was so so much easier once we had found the right person.
Is nursery the cheaper option?

It seems to be cheaper than our current nanny - she's on about 19k per year for 4 days work 8am-4pm. Provisional calculations seem to suggest that two nursery places would come in at under this - I think - and would allow us to have five days a week too? Also pay for nanny's parking (£150 per year) plus petrol used with DD (£20 per week i.e. about £800 per year) plus Ofsted registration (£100 per year).

Also, if I'm honest, struggling with some aspects of employing a nanny and keen to be dealing with a business rather than an individual. Nanny is v lovely but have had some struggles with it all (chronicled on nanny, au pairs etc. board) and somewhat relieved - though also terrified - to have my hand forced on this by money.

My dc's gp to the same nursery and while they are in separate rooms they often eat tea together. Once the 'big' room is quiet in the afternoons then little 22mo DD gets to go in there and ignore her big brother and trash the big kids toys .

Low staff turnover is good, the one we use has had the same manager for 10 years and only 2 members of staff have left in the 2 years we've been using it. Lots of them are old hands now some parents have had kids there for several years with the same staff.

I just got a good feeling the first time I saw the nursery TBH, I hadn't read OFSTED reports but I had heard it was considered to be a good nursery. The staff give cuddles, play on the floor with the kids, act silly but they do a good job of keeping order.

I use the nursery staff to help me out at home sometimes and they feel like a (very) extended part of the family.

I work in a nursery, and I'd say the Ofsted report is important - I've worked in an outstanding nursery and a satisfactory one and yes you can tell the difference.

Your DDs are unlikely to see much of each other during the day as they'll be in different rooms. Obviously it's much more convenient to have them both in the same setting though.

The size of the group,especially for your 1 year old, is important - studies have shown group sizes of no more than 6-8 children for the under 2s is ideal. I personally wouldn't choose somewhere with a baby room of more than 9 children. For the 2-3 year old age group a larger group size is fine, maybe 12-16 children, but consider the size of the room. Is it big enough for that number of toddlers plus 3 or 4 adults? Limited space causes children to become stressed.

The most important thing is the staff in my opinion. Ask about staff turnover, and how qualified they are. Avoid nurseries that use lots of unqualified 18 year old "trainees" - they're cheap for the nurseries to employ but ime are unlikely to stay in the job for long as the pay is so terrible. You want some consistency so your children can build relationships with the staff. Ask if the staff do much additional training, get sent on courses etc - if the nursery invests in it's staff than you have happy and knowledgable people looking after your children.

Definitely ask to see a menu too - some nurseries get away with serving rubbish food.

Psychologically ... the great Jay Belsky says that 18 months with primary carer is ideal but if children already have the advantages of motivated and engaged parents, to be honest I think a lot of the emotional downsides of nursery can be easily ironed out and they get all the intellectual good sides.

Almost all the parents I know through work use the uni nurseries and they're all so very positive about them that we've applied for the main one ourselves. They're well supplied, well staffed and the manageress has been there at least 20 years and still remembers a friend of mine from when she was a uni baby herself!

That said, getting two kids in might be harder, so best to apply to multiple nurseries. They'd be in different 'rooms' but probably mix outside; depends what other kids they've got in those ages whether there'd be space.

I've discussed the guilt thing with my sister-in-law wrt my neice when they were first preparing to send her to nursery, but since then, it's so obvious that neice is very securely attached and happy that they're happy as larry and I've chilled out myself.

I'm going to start off from the re-assurance point of view. If you choose a nursery you are happy with (see below for my ideas on how to find a good nursery) then your children will reap many benefits from a nursery. The are equipped to provide children with so many experiences that most of us would struggle to do at home - very messy play like body painting, shaving foam, hands in beans and custard etc - DS loves it!), learning how to play with other children/sharing toys, sociable eating experience, group trips in local area.

Moving from a nanny to a nursery must be daunting for you, and possibly for the children but a good nursery will do weaning in sessions to get you all used to the new setting. DS did an hour one day then a couple of hours the next day, moving on to nap and meal times over the space of 2 weeks. It is hard leaving your children in nursery, believe me. It's strange but that's just because it's a new experience. I felt really happy leaving DS there within a couple of weeks.

Just a few pointers on what I think makes a good nursery and what I wish I'd looked for. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with my choice but there's always a few niggles that get you.

• OFSTED reports are somewhat important, although my DS's nursery was only satisfactory when he started as it was a new branch of a local chain so wasn't very established. They told me the improvements they were going to make to move them up the scale and they have followed through with these changes and the nursery is very good.
• Food - make sure food is home-cooked and ask to see a sample menu. My nursery offers hot dogs for tea sometimes and gives a few too many desserts for my liking but I have asked them to give DS an alternative.
• Staff - (turnover - as others have already mentioned) is so important. Good carers can make or break your child's experience so ask questions and see if the staff smile at you when you walk in the room. See it from your child's point of view. If the staff are happy and enthusiastic and greet you as you walk in the room, that's a good start. My friends' nursery doesn't even acknowledge her child as she drops DD at nursery, which is appalling.

As for whether your children can mix, I think most nurseries merge their groups at some point in the day, especially in the summer when they play in the garden lots so everyone goes outside together.

I live in Greater London and I pay £42 per day, my sister pays a bit more but her nursery does better, organic food and provides nappies, so just check what's included and judge if more cost = better care.

Hope you find somewhere good that you are all happy with.

...just to add to my previous post. I checked OFSTED reports after my visit and they were good / outstanding. Which confirmed what I thought really .

I wouldn't have sent them if the reports were bad.

We visited as many nurseries as had spaces and went by gut instinct. One nursery that was considered to be the best one in town was awful- staffed by young girls, none of whom smiled at us when we went round.

Our first nursery (we moved house or she'd have stayed there) was cheap and staffed entirely by women who had their own children. Very low turnover of staff. Downside was meals a bit hit and miss (Angel Delight for pudding once a week).

The one where she is now has a fabulous garden, lots of fruit, supplied all nappies (not a consideration now), but most of the staff are young and they leave frequently.