Private nurseries and government funding

[ChickenInABasket]

DS has just turned 3 and will be eligible for his free 12.5 hrs nursery place in Sept 2010 (and I read that this will increase to 15 hrs in sept 2010).

DS is in private nursery 8-6pm 4 days a week cos I work. Is the nursery required to knock the equivalent of 15hrs childcare off the bill and reclaim it from the govt? Or can the nursery chose not to reduce the fees?

Just hoping the nursery bill will go down as we're skint!!

yes, my dc's nursery allows over 3's to claim 15 free hours.

Although they do then charge for meals so it doesn't make it totally free .

They can either knock it off your bill, or they may just claim the money and give it all to you as a lump sum.

Remember that the 15 hours a week is termtime only so you won't get the discount all year round.

That's great news, that will help me out a lot!

They can't choose not to reduce the fees if they are registered to claim the funding, but they can choose not to be part of the the funding scheme.

all the above is true

the only unfortunate thing to remember is that we may not have any 'free' places come Sept 2010 if this govt go ahead and scrap them (as predicted)!

We used to get ours as a cheque at the end of the term. You have to sign for it but the nursery does all the form filling in. At other places they take it off the fees first - just depends.

You do get it though yes

I know jetset, it's a big worry as i'm sure a lot of mums rely on this funding and will have to give up work if the govt cut funding. I hope the liberal element of the govt stick up for free nursery places!

can I be v cheeky and ask how much money you get back from a private nursery please? DS's nursery is new and seems to be struggling with the calculations and getting an idea of what's available from the local authority.

Do you actually get 15 hours a week (per term) free at private nursery, or a set amount of cash? I would have thought that the hourly rate charged / calculated is more at private than state nurseries, so you wouldn't actually get 15 hours of private nursery fees paid. Is that right?

Goingpostal, this is how it works at the nursery where i work.
Child attends for 5 days.
5 days x £32 = £160 before funding

child gets maximum of 12.5 hours of funding which is about £8 a session = £40 a week

160 - 40 = £120 a week

Except, the funding is for term time only. So the payments will go up in the school holidays, such as the summer and Easter.
The hourly rate paid to the nursery from the local education authority varies from authority to authority.

We get a set amount - so not the actual cost of 15 hours in a private nursery - your council will be able to tell you how it works for you.

I was also surprised as DS does 4 mornings a week in his private preschool - so he's with them for 20 hours in total, but we can only claim for 12.5 hours as it's 4 'sessions' in council terms.....still, it's still nice when we get the cheque back from nursery once a term!

thanks, that's v helpful

This has been covered here before but the funding is supposed to provide the hours free at the point of delivery. So all this knocking the amount of funding off the normal cost or giving it as a refund at the end of the term/year is actually against the rules of them getting the funding.

DD1 nursey said it was roughly £20 a month per half day they do. So if you use it all £100 week discount but that was for 12.5 hours so presumably 15 hours will give a little more.

By mnistooaddictive Sun 16-May-10 14:12:41

"DD1 nursey said it was roughly £20 a month per half day they do. So if you use it all £100 week discount but that was for 12.5 hours so presumably 15 hours will give a little more."

But the point is it shouldn't matter how much the funding is - it's the number of hours you should get for free.

In my setting we get roughly £2 less per 2.5 hr session in funding than we charge non funded children. We can't charge the extra money those hours have to be free.

A lot of settings are worried about the wider introduction of the 15 hours as they are already doing 15 hrs, getting the funding for 12.5 and then charging an inflated price for the extra 2.5 hours to try and make up the difference.

It comes down to the (last) Govt wanting be lord/lady bountiful in offering free early years provision, but it has really been subsidised by settings that have either had to make their money byo ther means or continue to pay low wages for staff who are expected to do the same job as early years staff in schools .

TidyBush (love the name) - only the Nursery Teacher in a school setting gets a decent salary, the other helpers get peanuts there as well.

Sorry hocuspontas I know the kind of crap wages TAs get and that's another bugbear of mine - that schools exploit them, especially for things like PPA cover.

I was giviny the OP a guide of the difference she might expect to pay as that was her question. I have no doubt that your points are valid but if your child is full time then the only difference you see is your bill each month.

I would like to point out that at the nursey I use you pay the same for a 6 month old baby as you do for a 3 year old and as a 6 month old has twice as high a staff ratio, they are making money there surely?

The free entitlement amount is set by the LA. In West Sussex this year that is set at £3.77 per hour, which as a childminder does not cover my hourly rate, & although I am accredited to deliver the early years funding element none of my children claim it at present. If they did I am not allowed to 'top up' the fees although my hourly rate is £4.50 and therefore have reclaim the extra by setting a session fee (say aminimum amount of hours is so much) or charging for food. This means that I could effectively operate at a loss if a parent decided they only wanted to use me for the early years hours .

my nursery which I own used to have a higher rate for babies but then I reduced it in line with the others babies as we all know are a loss leader!
and yes the whole point of running a business is to "make money" if we didnt we couldnt pay wages, rent, insurance, utilities, diesel, food, etc

Of course they have to make money but the extra charged for 3 year olds on a 8:1 ratio must cover that lost by using nursery vouchers. That is the point I wa making.