Concerns about a playgroup that is'exempt' from OFSTED

[SandyChick]

Hello,

I took ds who is 2.6 for a settling in session to a local playgroup. It is a held in a nearby community centre and is open for 2 hours each morning which makes it exempt from OFSTED/Early Years register.

There are 2 members of staff - the lady who runs it and a lady who is currently doing an NVQ in early years etc.

The playgroup itself is lovely and ds really enjoyed it but my concerns are with safety as there are no regulations to be followed.

There were 16 children between the ages of 2.5 and 3.5. The lady who runs the group left the room to go downstairs to put cash in safe which left the other lady on her own with 16 kids which i was surprised by. A member of staff were left on their own more than once while i was there.

I tried asking the lady about safety etc but she was quite blase and said that they had been CRB checked and that her husband who also helps out sometimes is checked too.

Also there is nothing in place to stop a member of the public walking in off the street and into the playgroup. The door doesnt lock or have an intercom. You could basically walk into the community centre and up the stairs into the room without anyone seeing you until you were in the playgroup.

Im uncomfortable with the fact that they dont have to follow any regulations because they are only open for 2 hours but if they were open for an extra few minutes they would need to be OFSTED registered and im pretty sure what they are doing would not be allowed. My ds had been to private nursery in the past who obviously must stick to the 1:3 adult/child ratio for that age group. Im find it hard to believe that just because of the duration they are open there doesnt have to be any checks, regulations to follow etc

Is this normal for a playgroup? Am i just being a bit OTT?

it doesnt sound like a playgroup to be honest, are you placing your son there so he can get his free place when he turns 3 because without being ofsted registered this would not be allowed.

ratio wise it is 1:8 so 16 children is fine BUT 2 staff should be present at all times.
what insurance do they have?
have you asked why they wont register with ofsted?
sounds more to me like a creche arrangement.

Does one of the staff already hold a level 3 qualification?

My ds will be going to a nursery attatched to a primary school in september. Putting him into a playgroup is just so he has children his age to play with really. It is a bit like a creche i suppose but it only takes children from 2.6 years to around nursery school age.

Im not 100% sure about qualifications. I know that 1 member of staff is currently doing an NVQ but not sure what level. The lady who runs the group is a retired nurse and she has run the playgroup for years.

Do they have to display their insurance documents and CRB checks certificates?

what about secure access to the playgroup?

it is not necessary to have secure access, i have run creches in rooms that can just be walked into. There should be ATLEAST one level 3 person on site i think so check that out. Insurance should be displayed. Do they have first aid? i know one is a retired nurse but check if first aid is up to date.

It does sound like a creche so if you feel comfortable with that then thats fine. In my experiance you should go with your gut instinct TBH. if it feels odd then you will not relax and your child will pick up on this.

Thanks bonkers. I do want ds to go. He settled surprisingly well and he loved it. I feel a bit more at ease knowing that the ratio of 2 members of staff to 16 is ok. Im going to have a little chat to the lady that runs it about my concerns with her leaving the other lady on her own with 16 kids.

I still think that it's wrong that a childcare provider can operate unregulated or inspected.

i think it will still be regulated by OFSTED though. i copied and pasted the following from a web site and it definately says they should be regulated.

You are the expert on your child and you are the person who knows best what kind of childcare service will suit your child. Knowing what to expect from the regulation framework can help you have confidence in the service you choose. The regulation framework sets out standards for most kinds of childcare, early education and pre-school service.

The Childcare Act 2006 - Early Years Providers
The term 'early years providers' includes: maintained schools, non-maintained schools, independant schools and childcare registered by Ofsted. From September 2008 it is the legal duty of these providers to ensure that their provision meets the learning and development needs and complies witht the welfare regulations of the Childcare Act 2006.

day nurseries
playgroups
after school clubs and holiday playschemes
childminders
Registration and Inspection
The Care Standards Act 2000 gives Ofsted Early Years a duty to register and inspect the childcare services listed above. This means:

people running daycare services for children up to eight years old must register with Ofsted Early Years. This includes childminders.
regular inspections must be carried out to ensure the childcare continues to be safe and suitable
Ofsted Early Years must ensure people running childcare services are suitable to do so.
Checks cover the person applying to run a childcare service, childminders and members of childminders' families who will be in contact with the children
people running childcare services must make sure the premises are safe and appropriate for children
people running childcare services must plan children's activities to help them enjoy learning and playing
Ofsted Early Years are responsible for regulating and inspecting against the requirements of the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS).
parents can request to see inspection reports on childcare services
Education Acts
Government funded early or Pre-School education services. A series of Education Acts apply to state nursery schools, state nursery classes and maintained schools. They cover:

what children are taught
inspection regimes
staff training and qualifications
Each local authority has its own quality assurance arrangements for nurseries and they are also subject to inspection carried out by OFSTED in England and HM Inspectors of Schools (HMI) in Scotland.

What about private schools?
Independent schools with nursery classes are registered with the Department for Education and Employment in England and the Scottish Executive for Scotland. An independent school is any private school with at least five pupils of compulsory school age. There are no regulations covering staff ratios in independent schools. A sample is inspected each year by the relevant HMI (Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Schools) for Scotland and England.

Education law for three and four year olds
Many early education and childcare services offer free part-time early or pre-school education to four year olds and three year olds. This is paid for by the Government. All services which provide free part-time early or pre-school education services for three year olds or four year olds are checked by inspectors for Ofsted in England and HMI in Scotland. Ofsted inspectors register services to provide the free part-time places. Then regular inspections are carried out to ensure children are provided with the opportunity to achieve a series of early learning goals by the end of the year in which they become five years old.

Which types of childcare are not registered and inspected?
The following types of childcare do not have to be registered but can, if they wish join a voluntary register, which will enable parents to access childcare tax credits:

nannies (working for no more than two families)
au pairs (in the family home). Au pairs are regulated by the Home Office but the work they do is not registered or inspected
services which cater only for children aged eight or over.
How do I check whether services are registered?
You can ask to see their registration certificate. You can also request to read a copy of their latest Inspection Report. Ofsted Early Years will help if you need to know more about registration and inspection of services

links to the reg not required list only 2 hours care means they don't have to register

The thing that concerns me in your post is that you described the lady who runs it as blase. I do think we are sometimes over- cautious these days, but I would expect anyone looking after children to be sensitive to the concerns of parents.

I think it's fine for playgroups where the parents stay with the kids to be more lightly regulated or not regulated at all by Ofsted, but I think I would share your discomfort at leaving a child unaccompanied in an unregulated setting.

It's up to you - best thing to do is do what you feel comfortable doing.

This sounds odd to me. My ds2 goes to a 2-hour, non-OFSTED-registered playgroup (to which dd also went) and they are very careful to control access to the building, and to maintain the correct ratios of adults to children. I have no idea what the adults' qualifications are, but their childcare skills and passion for the job are clearly excellent.

I find it difficult to believe that any paid-for childcare, for however many hours or minutes, is completely unregulated.

I would not be comfortable with the playgroup that you describe.

Pretty Candles you just said your playgroup is non ofsted.... that means it IS unregulated.

Isn't there a difference between registered and regulated? Isn't all paid-for childcare regulated in some way?

If it's open 2 hours or less a day it does not have to be regulated/checked etc.

Ofsted have said that the places are exempt by them are looked after by the local authorities/social services. I called them and they said they don't check or regulate but if I was concerned about childrens welfare then I could make a complaint and they would check. I'm not concerned as such fir the welfare of the children at this particular playgroup but I am concerned that anyone can set up "childcare" as long as it's less than 2 hours per day and not be checked - surely I'm missing something because this just seems unbelievable!

If a setting is "exempt" there is a voluntery register but I can understand why places don't want to volunteer because of all the paperwork etc. It's just easier not to if you don't have to.