what level of supervision should there be within a nursery at any one time?

[SlightlyFoxed]

my son is at a nursery, it's my first experience of this sort of care (he was with a CM before). I was out today in the local area and was a little surprised to see the manager and deputy manager out, having their lunch break together. they are the members of staff responsible for the main room where ds spends his time (he's not there today btw).

I am just curious really, not having a go / being negative as I think it is a good nursery. should they take their break separately? I imagine that a lot of the children will be having nap, but did think that perhaps a more senior person would be around most of the time.

When they're not there, there should be someone with the correct level of qualification to be supervising.
Our preschool (I know that ratios are different) wasn't allowed to run if there wasn't a member of staff who wasn't level 4 or working towards level 4.
As a parent -I would defo ask the manager for a word and nicely query what the ratios/supervision levels should be.
Unless there are other staff who qualify to act as dep/man whilst theyr'e away, then it sounds a bit naughty. If nobody else replies ehre, then you could call your local council and ask about ratios/supervision levels as they would know.

thanks lucie. they sent ds home without any socks on yesterday (he had shoes on obviously or I might have noticed! He clearly wasn't bothered as we walked back and he didn't complain), so it's kind of two things in two days. I do like it though so really hope these are not symptomatic of anything more worrying.

If it's a nice nursery that you like, then I'm sure they had adequate cover but always good to make sure.

Okay- I was wrong I think. I asked a dep manager of a nursery today and she said that there had to be a level 3 supervisor there at all times. She said that if her manager was out, she would have to be there.

There only needs to be a level 3 in charge.
Say if the Manager was on holiday (and this does happen)the Deputy is covering for her and if she was sick, then the next one in charge would take over!

lucie, thanks for asking, that's really kind. will have a look at the staff board next time and just suss out how it works. I am pretty confident that they will have had it covered properly. they both saw me and said hi so can't imagine that they were doing anything wrong!

To be fair I would expect one or t'other to be in the building, but like nurseryvoice says there only needs to be a level 3 in charge.

My understanding is that a manager must be present at all times so if the manager is on lunch break / holidays / sick the deputy manager should be on premises. Unless the circumstances are beyond the control of the nursery such as they are both off with swine flu or some such. I would not class a joint lunch break as circumstances beyond their control, as I would of thought that they do the rotas.

However this does not mean that your DC has been left without adequate supervision, most nurseries have part time staff that come in to cover lunch breaks / absences, whether the children are sleeping or not the nursery must have the correct ratio of staff:children at all times. A room leader must have at least a level 3 qualification or above.

thanks for the replies. will definitely look into it a bit further to set my mind at rest - can you advise if the level 3 supervision needs to be direct ie in the room, or just in the building (like most nurseries, ds's has various rooms serving different age groups.) I assume the former, in which case each room should always have a level 3 or above person present?

thanks again for your help.

I'm not entirely sure on that, I think a level 3 has to be in every room but I've known nurseries to just have a level 2 in a room before.

in our nursery there is a manager, a deputy manager and 4 senior officers so even if deputy and manager are not there then there are 4 other senior officers on site.
You have to be level 3 qualified and have 3 years minimum since qualification to be a manager or senior officer.
You have to have a minimum of level 2 in each room but a level 3 person should be supervising. So in my nursery ONE level three member looks after 2 rooms each.

A manager and deputy having a break together is a good idea. You need time to have a meeting every now and then. At my old nursery there was a Manager, Deputy, then 2 other members of staff as nominated 'responsible people'(I think through ofsted?)

Why not ask what happens if the manager and deputy are both ill for a week?

Each room should have a level 3

The acting manager does not and should not be in any room.

If there are more than 26 children on site the manager should be supernumeray (extra to ratios)

Lunch times are always difficult in nurseries as staff need to eat and have a break, obviously nurseries cannot afford to hire extra staff for this hour or so as the fees would have to go up alot to cover this.

At my nursery I cover across the lunch time period , I usually have another extra too, and 1 staff only works mornings so doesnt need a lunch.
Its really irritating though when people ring up at lunch time (in their lunch break I presum) as then I have to get the phone and door)

In our nursery, the manager and deputy are both supernummary.
They have their lunch break together after all the other staff have had theirs as they cover dinners and mop the floors.
They have 30 mins, we all have an hour.
If they go out together, we are more than capable of answereing the phone or the door.
If we needed to contact them in an emergency, we can call them on the nursery mobile which the manager takes with her.

Statutory Framework for The Early Years Foundation Stage, Section 3 - The Welfare Requirements (Specific Legal Requirements) states the following "All supervisors and managers must hold a full and relevant level 3 (as defined by the Children's Workforce Development Council (CWDC)) and half of all other staff must hold a full and relevant level 2 (as defined by CWDC)"

Nurseries tend to have a senior worker in each room or room leader they must all hold a level 3 qual, they do not necessarily have to be present in the room at all times but it is good practice to replace a level 3 with a level 3 for eg, to cover holiday / sick leave / lunch breaks.

Lunch cover

Welfare requirements state

"In registered group settings there must be a named deputy who is able to take charge in the absence of the manager"

If the named manager and deputy are both out at lunch at the same time then they are not working to the specific legal requirements.
And would get severley bollocked should they be found out.

"If the named manager and deputy are both out at lunch at the same time then they are not working to the specific legal requirements.
And would get severley bollocked should they be found out."

Not if other staff present in the room are level 3.

The named deputy isn't just the Deputy Manager. It could be one of the next most senior level 3s. I was 3rd in charge at a nursery, and was nominated to be in charge when the top 2 were off.

minimum legal requirements are

1:8 at age 3+
1:4 at age 2-3
1:3 under 2

ideally at least half should have nvq3 or equivalent but

in my nursery out of 17 staff, 2 our level 2 trained, 12 are level 3 and 3 are level 4.

The mananger is level 4
The deputy level 3
All the nursery officers are a level 3 trained, and one is a level 4.

We have lunch time assistants, which are not, but are crb checked and not left with the children.

We also have students in the nursery almost on a constant stream, which can offer an extra pair of hands. Setting up snack, washing up, tidying up e.t.c and they are never left alone with the children.

I know of a case where this happened.

Room leaders should be level 3 min as per welfare requirements.

Room leaders are not their to take over from a manager or deputy manager, they are in addition too. If a nursery wants a back up after manager, deputy then this should be a named (with ofsted) person and checks carried out as per suitable person interview, if you think about it the manager, deputy will be privvy to a lot of info that room leaders and nursery nurses will not be aware of and may be awkward for them to be suddenly dropped into a difficult situation that they would be expected to deal with.

I am sure that most key workers within a nursery would be more than capable of dealing with these situations, just sharing my knowledge of specific case.

lots more advice thanks! ds is only there a couple of sessions a week so haven't yet had a chance to check. I am really happy with the nursery and it seems to be very professional so I have no worries, but it is all helpful and good background so that I can just double-check.

many thanks for all the advice.