Pre-school incident - help please

[mama74]

I have registered my 2 three-year olds for 5 mornings a week at the local pre-school. They've only done one day so far, as rest of this week was snowed off. My daughter seemed to be fine, but things happened regarding my son which I feel very angry and sad about. This is the chain of events on their first day:

• No welcome, no introduction of staff, explanation of anything etc., just a bunch of forms to fill in
• When I arrived to collect, saw my son standing in the middle of a group of other kids with his wet pants and trousers round his ankles. He was obviously confused, but there was no adult in sight. The other kids were naturally laughing (imagine this on your first ever day away from your mum). The member of staff who opened the door for me had to walk straight past him to do so, but ignored him
• When another member of staff appeared, she explained he had peed all over the toilet floor as he missed the toilet, so she told him to wait there (on a slippery wet floor with his pants down) while she fetched a change of clothes (from a cupboard somewhere)
• Then she told me he had been crying and screaming for me for a long time after I left, and she had told him she would give him a chocolate if he could calm down and be a good boy (even I try to avoid this bribe!)
• No apology was given, and when I tried to speak to the manager, she just disappeared behind a door (I wasn't even told she was the manager until another mum pointed her out)

Is this all totally unacceptable, or am I making something from nothing? My little boy didn't seem overly upset, just really bewildered. But I've just got this knot in my stomach about it all. I don't care if he's only 3, I'm sure he deserves more dignity? Should I withdraw my kids, or give it another try? I know it has to be my decision, but would REALLY appreciate opinions or advice - and I just had to vent!!! -

That's a pretty big chuck in at the deep end isn't it. Aren't you going to stay for any sessions with them to get a handle on what goes on in a session BEFORE you leave them for first time with out mum. Its handy to boost your children's confidence by being able to talk about what they are are experiencing and you won't get much info out of a 3 yr old or from staff at hand over as they deal with 20 families in 5 minutes.

Doesn't sound it was great morning from your sons point of view, but preschool staff don't know him yet, don't know what he is or is not capable of ( re toileting or staying where he is told to stay) and do have a lot of other children to be supervising at same time.

3 yr old boys don;t have much natural dignity. I shouldn't worry too much about that. give him a a few weeks and he'll be stripping off to show his friends his super hero pants or what he has found his willy will do.

omg!!!

no, none of that is even vaguely acceptable and i would never ever send my children back there.

that's AWFUL!

and i don't agree with 3 yr old boys not having much dignity either!
mine would have been very distressed at being in a situation like that

Thanks for this, it's helpful. I was really rushed out the door unfortunately and no one suggested I could stay. But you're absolutely right, and I'll be staying there on Monday morning no matter what they say! I'm still surprised that none of the staff talked to me about anything at all considering it was my kids' first day? Maybe I wasn't bold enough, and needed to pipe up?

What you describe sounds totally unacceptable to me and I would be speaking to the manager about it. I don't have any experience of pre-schools but my son has been at private nursery since he was 6 months old and I would never tolerate that kind of care (or lack of).

O, I was replying to UniS, but now I've seen the other 2 posts I know I'm not the only one to think these thoughts!!! It is awaful, eh? Oh god, having had no experience of this kind of thing I'm soooo confused - pooh! Thanks everyone, at least I know I'm not going mad....even if I still don't quite know what to do. Of course I have spent most of the week trying to find another pre-school, but they are all booked up round here.

If you don't mind me saying, I think you maybe need to think about what you could have done more, rather than just going somewhere else straight away.

For example, on the first day, I would not have left my children there without talking to the manager and their key-workers, finding out how they would be comforted if required and what strategies they use, asking them to ring you later on for an update, or you ringing them.

They should have been proactive with an introduction etc, but preschools are very busy places, so you should have made sure this happens.

If you take this at face value, what has actually happened here? He had an accident and someone asked him to wait while they got some fresh clothes, but I think that he wandered off. Clearly the staff priority was getting the clothes ASAP and i don't think that is so bad. The other member of staff walked right past him to some and get the door - but why not if someone else was dealing with that situation already.

The chocolate bribe is a bad one, but perhaps you could look at it as a clumsy way to let a child know that if they can behave well they will be rewarded. You can work with them and explain that a better way of dealling with this is ....... Some parents wouldn't have a problem with that and they don't know you or your child so you have to tell them.

And the crying after you left is very natural - did you talk to them about whether to call you after half an hour if he hadn't settled or tell them just to deal with it. Again i think it comes down to you managing them as it were.

I completely sympathise with you, I really do, and I remember my own children having all sorts of problems at their preschool and that awful feeling of whether i was doing the right thing sending them there.

I am just trying to say that whether you leave them there or go somewhere else I think you need to take more control with the staff and making sure you know all about them and how they do things, and telling them about how you like to do things. And if you want to stay for a bit until you are happy with how things are working, bloody well do so - if they say no, then get them out pronto.

What happened isn't on and you're absolutely right to be concerned. My greatest worry in reading your OP is that even when you arrived and witnessed the state he was in, none of the staff even then seemed to register that what you were seeing needed some sort of explanation and reassurance from them. Sounds like they are totally unaware of what would be considered acceptable standards.

It sounds awful.

I'd like to think that I would be able to give them another try but tbh I think that would be it for me. It's not so much the actual incident with your ds being laughed at but the whole attitude of the staff.

Thanks to all of you - Crackersinbed, you've hit on something here of course, I knew nothing about how pre-school worked and had no idea I'd have to 'manage them' as you said. But that does seem to be the case, and I am going to give it another try on Monday, even though my real feelings are those of maxpower and coppertop! Of course I'll be staying with them on that day and observing/talking to the staff. I might even do that over a few days, then if I'm still not happy I'll knock it on the head for now...

mama No, that is not normal. It sounds crap . I wouldn't go back.

My DS has been going to a lovely nursery for a couple of years now and when I went to visit the local pre-school I was shocked at how crap it was as I had the nursery to compare it too. Both the dc's are now staying at nursery until reception year as it is far better. In almost 2 years of nursery I have not encountered one time where I think the staff are anything less than fantastic. Whereas on the pre-school visit I was .

Yep, wothdraw with immediate effect and be very angry. It sounds shite.

Your instinct is totally spot on. Poor ds

Meglet, do your kids go to a private nursery? If so, does the government still make an allowance of 12.5 hours a week free for 3 years old plus?
The only nurseries/pre-schools I've found with places still available are private.
Thanks in advance for any more help?
FlightAttendant, yes I've been wound up about it all week, it's not good is it?!

Mama I have been thinking about you since I posted last night in case i was a bit harsh. I totally know how worried you must be.

I should add that when my twins started at their preschool I went along for FIVE WEEKS, because one had real trouble settling, and I was really anxious about leaving him. But it meant that I had a great idea of what was going on and on a few things that I wasn't happy with I decided to let it go / spoke up accordingly.

I think the main thing is that YOU have to be comfortable here. I would honestly give them a second chance, as long as you can stay and observe basically, and if you still have doubts then look somewhere else.

We used a private preschool, so we got the govt vouchers for 12.5 hours and then paid the difference for the extra amount it cost. I think that is fairly normal practice.

mama yes, DS is just about to get his free nursery allowance which will be taken off the invoice every month. It's a private nursery 8am - 6pm, 3 months to 4yrs.

I think this all sounds unacceptable, but some of it may have a simple explanation. However I think the fact you were not offered to stay is bad. All the pre-schools round here send out a welcome pack before your child starts detailing what you can expect of the pre-school, and what they expect of you. I was allowed to go into to ds1's pre-school whenever I wanted.

He was very clingy but they worked very hard with me to help him settle in. Nothing was too much trouble.

You should have been introduced to at least the manager and your children's key workers.

Bribing him with chocolate is ridiculous. Pre-school workers should have training in how to encourage and calm a child without resorting to bribes.

The thing with the toilet I can sort of understand as my ds1 once managed to wee all over himself and one playworker when he missed the toilet however. I actually arrived whilst they were changing him and one worker was with him in the toilet whilst another fetched the clean clothes. They had left him with his trousers down though, but I think that was because they were trying to avoid making his t-shirt wet.

From what you have described I think you should go back with your concerns and then stay for a couple of sessions. If they refuse then definatly take your children out and find another one that does. IMO if they won't let you stay they have something to hide.

Thanks again Crackers, I'm feeling so confused that I've now asked my husband to come along to pick us up at the end of Monday's session so that we can both talk to the staff. Wow, five weeks! It's good to know that you're allowed to stay like that (or maybe that's just private preschools?) - I just knew nothing really (accepted place at pre-school on recommendation of a couple of friends whose kids have got on really well there).
Don't worry you weren't harsh, it was just another point of view. And you're right, I have to feel comfortable - don't just yet. I shall keep my appointment to view a private pre-school next week then, and ask about the govt funding.
Let's hope all is sorted for us by the end of next week whatever happens.
Cheers

I work in a playgroup and we would not leave a child with pants and trousers round his ankles in full view of everyone! Accidents happen of course but there are better ways to deal with them.

I think you should take them back but tell the manager you will stay on the premises out of sight of your DCs. If he (or she) are upset and cannot be consoled by the staff and engaged in an activity, go into the room for a while and then leave again, so they get used to the fact that you will be coming back. We are happy for parents to stay if they need/want to, although we do encourage them to leave for part of the session. It may also be helpful if you collect them before the end of the session for the first couple of weeks, just until they get used to it. Rather than the chocolate bribe, ask them to say that you have gone to the shops, or nan's, or somewhere the children are familiar with, and that you will be back for them soon.

Although you should have been made welcome it is difficult to talk to staff at the start and end of sessions because they are such busy times. Perhaps you could go in 10 minutes after the session starts and have a word with the manager then? Explain your concerns - they should be working with you to help your children to settle in and enjoy the sessions.

Thanks Meglet, that's really helpful.
tutu100, that's interesting that a similar thing happened to your little one, and everything else you say makes sense. Wow, mumsnet really does help to stop you feel like you're going crazy! I joined when my twins were born, but haven't really thought of it since.

niftyfifty, that's great to get a professional's point of view too - I worked as a secondary school teacher before the twins came along and of course have no idea about early years stuff! If I can find a spot to stay out of sight, that might be better it's true. Although being a church hall it might be hard to find anywhere.
Thank you

Doesn't sound professional to me and I don't think the onus is on the parent here, the preschool staff should be welcoming and deal with toilet accidents discreetly and in a caring way
I'd definitely talk to them again
Maybe your feedback will prevent others being treated in this way

You may have difficulty staying out of sight in a church hall - I was thinking of our premises, sorry! In that case, maybe you could stay a while, then tell the children you are going to leave now and go to .... (wherever they are familiar with), and then go back after a while or ring to see how they are. Some of our parents have left without saying anything once their children's attention is diverted but I'm not comfortable with that myself - to me it makes it worse for the child when he DOES look up and sees that mum's disappeared!

The most important thing is for you and your DCs to feel happy and comfortable and every child is individual - some take longer than others to settle. Good luck - please post & say how you get on.