Problem with preschool - a sort of AIBU!

[Quiltedrose]

Having some problems today with my daughter's preschool. She is only there 1 morning a week as that's all they could offer. But I asked to see her Early years observation folder (which I thought all childcare providers were supposed to keep) and all that was in there was 1 bit of A4 paper dated 8th October with a few notes on it - no actual sentences, no evidence - so I found it really hard to work out how she is doing.

I asked her keyworker how she is getting on and she said 'Oh, she's a confident child and very chatty' when what I really meant was, is she on target to be ready for school?? I also asked what goals she was working towards and it turns out there aren't any.

So, not being totally experienced with the whole preschool thing, wondered if anyone could help me out with a few qu's so I can decide if I am being completely reasonable at being a bit disgusted at how little my daughter's keyworker knows her or is this actually normaly for autumn term and I should cut them some slack? Now I know that if you work in an EY setting you are probably pig sick of the FS but putting that to one side for a moment

• How often are you meant to do observations for a child doing 1 session a week? Is one for the entire term about the norm? Are you meant to write them on a form that parents can access instead of a bit of crumpled paper? Are you meant to put photos, artwork, anything in to support what you say?
• Presumably a keyworker should at least have a rough idea how your child is doing?

Any advice for me if I do decide to take it up with preschool? Thank you

hmm

admittedly dd is there full time but she has a lever arch file crammed with her 'Learning Journey', inc, as you describe, observation / evaluation / extension sheets (updated at least twice a week), artwork, photos and other evidence.
All the children's folders are accessible by parents and they have their planning stuff for that week (with refs to EYFS), inc individual learning goals for each child and how they tie in with the 'extension' bits from their learning journeys, up on the notice board for parents to see.

but if I ever ask dd's keyworker or other carer how dd is doing they reply 'oh she is fine, very chatty and she had second helpings of fish risotto' or similar - they rarely volunteer 'academic' reports unless you schedule a meeting specifically (or at parents' evening)

so I go and look at the folder.

Personally I would skip the keyworkers and have a chat with the manager.

Hmm indeed. Thanks Mrs B, more convinced than ever now that i need a chat with the boss. Your dd's nursery sounds fab! (not sure if I am more impressed by comprehensive Learning Journey or the fish risotto )

I am pretty sure I am not being a pushy mum by wanting to know how she is getting on - I am not expecting linear equations or advanced Esperanto, but just some idea that her counting is progressing beyond '1...2...lots', and that if it isn't they can give me some ideas for how I can help her at home too.

I was pretty knocked out too - I hadn't even seen/heard about the 'learning journeys' till I went to a parents' evening and they whipped it out - I couldn't believe the effort that goes into them

fish risotto no great shakes, dd is a gannet uncritical eater, and I heard on the grapevine that no other child had liked it...

re stuff to do at home, have a squint at the EYFS website - I know it's meant for childcare professionals but it's written so clearly that anyone with half a brain will find it a goldmine of ideas for working all the areas into everyday trips to shops etc - I know I have!

1 sheet doesn't sound like enough, but on the other hand, she's only there 1 session per week.

Will she be staying on 1 session per week until she starts school?

On one session a week, I can honestly say that I wouldn't really get to know a child very well, however much I might want to.

DD has a huge folder, DS is slightly smaller, but masses of info, targets achieved and photos. I was told that these record go with them and finish at the end of reception. They also had a list of targets (EFYS?) which they mark of when achieved and the date. Kick up stink, doesn't matter whether she is there 1 day or full time. They also have books which we (me and keyworker)write in about things that they enjoy doing at school and at home.

dd2 is at preschool 2 mornings a week (2.5hours per session) been there since Sept.

She has the eyfs stages in her folder with around 15 labels of notes on them (those small white labels as staff keep them in their tabards and write notes on them as children do/say something then stick them in the relevant part of the EYFS folder and cross refernce them to other sections)

Also 3 pages of photos - 1 page entitled 'Hattie's first day at preschool' which showed her coming in/painting/playdohing/washing her hands/sitting down for snack/sitting down for story/sing time and playing in the garden. The other pictures are all evidence of her doing things related to the EYFS criteria and cross referenced.

DD1 attended the same preschool for 2.5 years and they gave me her file when she left and I have loads of drawings from when she started to leaving andphotos and comments on mannerisms/acheivements etc I loev looking through it.

Her preschool is fab and have brilliant manager and staff and as chair of the commitee I do get quite involved in the goings on

oh yes meant to say school were given option of folder but they ask for a summary sheet (massive grid thing with lots of ticks on it) we were asked to keep folder in case her teacher needed to see any of the evidence but as she is oldest in her year and doing well he hasnt asked to see it

I'd say the most important things are how happy she is there and how happy you feel about her days there rather than the paperwork but if good paperwork is what makes you feel happy, then a word with her keyworker or perhaps a different and more organised nursery might suit more?
dd's nursery is hopeless at that kind of thing but they excel at childcare, are loving and caring and provide a superb environment for dd and she loves it. her brothers went there as well. at the end of the year they magicked up a huge folder of work for each of the boys so they had been doing something throughout the year, just not putting it together. I wasn't bothered though cos I just love that nursery so much.
tbh if she's only going one day a week, they aren't going to be able to assess her as much anyhow. do you have concerns about her progress? if you ask directly about the things that you are worried about and ask them to observe and report back, you'll probably get more detail

I must confess this is one area where I might expect different things from a daycare nursery and a preschool

My daughter is also at nursery once a week full day and at pre-school 3 times a week for 3 hours.

Just had parents evening at nursery and they did not have much - a few drawings and observations (like she can use the toilet and dance around - very intelligent).

But the nursery teenager that is her 'teacher' was very happy that they eventually got dd to find her name (after traumatising her so much about it that she didn't want to go to school for weeks cause she couldn't find her name). This is an outstanding rated nursery.

Her 'good' rated pre-school is much better - she loves her teachers and its gentle but she does loads like planting and baking and they even went to Pizza Express the other day. I haven't seen her folder here but I'm not really worried as she is happy.

Mrs B thanks so much for taking the time to post that link, as you say some brilliant and easy to do ideas. We've actually got some of the books mentioned so a great place to start!

Littlefish we've got her name down for 2 more sessions but just nothing available yet! Unfortunately her keyworker only does 1 morning a week so even if dd does more days, she won't see any more of her keyworker. I know there is a difference between kw's who would like to get to know their charges better but simply don't have the time, and those that can't be bothered because they don't have the time and think we have one of the latter

Fivegomad and eandh thanks for letting me know what your nurseries do - it all helps as I have now made an appointment to speak with the manager and it's good to know what the 'gold standard' is.

sfa thanks for your comments, I think she is happy there. I definitely do not think that her preschool year should be all about academic stuff, I fall into the we-start-them-too-early-camp But our ed system is what it is and so for me it was more making sure that she was coming on with her numbers - I did ask about this and was told that they 'don't do numbers until after Christmas' . If it wasn't for the fact that the preschool is linked to the school dd will be going to next Sept I'd have her out in a flash - but wanted her to get to know some of the kids who would be in her reception year. But neither dd nor keyworker could tell me who she plays with so... oh well!!

FWIW all childcare/early years settings should be working on the same level now - the requirements are identical - the skill with which they are applied is

Quiltedrose - I made a decision to send dd to a nursery in the next village ie. not the one linked the school she was going to go to.

I did this because the nursery itself was excellent with an ethos that matched my own, even though I knew it meant that she would only know one other child when she started school.

I'm so pleased with the decision. Dd was so happy at nursery and it suited her perfectly. She has also settled really quickly at school due to the wonderful support for her emotional development that the nursery provided. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that going to a linked nursery is not the be all and end all. If you are not happy with the provision, then it might be worth looking around to see what else is available.

Personally it drives me mad that at preschool the staff have to spend their time writing notes on things my dd may or may not be doing in the limited time she is there.

She is three, preschool is about learning how to socialise & interact with others not about defined goals!

You must know yourself surely how she is progressing with concepts such as numbers etc. Do you need someone who spends maybe 3 hours with her a week to tell you about your own dd?

Children learn through play & everyday experience like going to the shops etc. Why formalise it all so early?
Let them play, play with them, take them to do stuff & they will learn.

I would have thought that it would be easier for the nursery with a 'one dayer' to write down something each week. Even just one sentence or a piece of artwork.

I have a 15 month that comes to me every other Thursday and I find it easy to note something down as I can see in those two weeks any progress he's made or an observation e.g. one Thursday he was crawling, two weeks later he was pulling himself up - something like that.

Hello again,

Taramuddle I think it's great that you would much rather have the staff play with your dd than write notes, so would I - I agree with you that preschool is about social skills and am all for a learning through play approach - we already start formal schooling too early imo but that is another debate.

My point here is that dd's preschool got an outstanding on their last Ofsted for knowing where the children are at, what they like doing, and having ideas for developing on this. But this does not ring true with my experience and if they are not doing regular observation how can they possibly know any of this stuff?

But in answer to your qu, yes I do know how dd is progressing with numbers etc but what I don't know is whether this is where she ought to be at - this is what I expect the professionals to be able to tell me, and if she isn't where she ought to be then I expect to work together with them to support her in getting there.

Scarfmaker I've been doing a quick survey of friend's dc's nurseries and preschools - and those in for a session a week get one observation a week and those in for more than that get at least two, so I think you are right on the money there, and there does seem to be tons of good practice going on. So once a term really isn't enough.

For those that are interested, I spoke to our local Education department and apparently there is no guidance as to how often settings are encouraged to do observations, as assessment is supposed to be 'continuous'. They have suggested I write to manager of the nursery, outlining my concerns, and explaining what I would like to see - and then give them some time to improve, and if they haven't improved, then make a complaint to Ofsted

My DD is in nursery class at the local school, and at a recent parents evening there was very little in her file, and the teacher was very very vague!
However, when DD was attending daycare they had a huge file and used to give me a form each day saying what she had been doing, what she had eaten etc.
I have NO idea what she does in school but she seems happy!

I found that the preschool my dc went to were great with observations folders etc. The nursery attached to school was very different. We are not given any formal information at parents evening. However, I still believe they know my ds better than his preschool did. They just don't share the records with parents.

I keep observations/plans/assessments etc in children's files, but I send all their artwork home. I don't think it is mine to keep. If there is something spectacular I may take a photo of it. A child who comes 1 day a week may have less in their file than a full time child, maybe 2 observations a month, maybe more. They would have plans, assessments and a summative report for the term and I would have a parents meeting to discuss their progress (at least once a term, but more if requested).