Bloody nursery again! Would you think this was a bit [hmm]?

[womblingfree]

A while after DD came home from nursery today she told me that there was a new trampoline at nursery, and that she hadn't been allowed to play on it.

Apparently she had not been singing well/loudly enough during singing time and the member of staff (MOS) leading the session said "DD's not singing loudly enough - she won't be going on the trampoline later".

DD said she made an effort to sing louder but no more mention was made of the trampoline. When they went outside to play on it later she was not encouraged to go on it, and was afraid to do so on her own initiative 'in case MOS shouted at me", so she was the only child as far as she could tell that didn't have a turn.

She was also the only child that was not allowed to stand up and sing on her own at the end of the singing session.

I have had her in tears over it about 3 times this afternoon and begging to go out in the garden on her own trampoline which we couldn't let her do as it's been raining and her jumping on it would hammer it into the ground!

I am - it's not the first time she's been singled out in this way, and her little best friend at nursery has had similar treatment - being sent out into the hallway because she didn't want to sing, as the others were shouting and it scared her. When BF's mum complained the nursery manager's attitude was that she was being PFB and that her daughter was over sensitive and 'needed to toughen up before primary school'.

DD has made some friends at nursery and apart from this and a couple of similar occurences () and only has 2 terms to go before she starts primary school in September so I'm reluctant to pull her out, but feel that the staff are pretty unfeeling and also from the response I've had over a couple of other issues I have raised are not entirely truthful if it means covering their own or one anothers backs.

Would you be hacked off and what would you do about it?

Sorry should have read
"....couple of similar occurences, she's happy there"

if it was an option, i would take her out of there and find somewhere else, or keep her at home.

the lack of empathy and unhelpful responses previously would really be making me think twice

singling 3 - 4 year olds out and being , well, mean, is just not acceptable

is this a private nursery or a pre school?

I think I would mention it to the class leader and see what she says for starters.

How old is your DD?

Sorry just realised she must be 4.

sounds horrible. I'd see what their side of the story is -but whatever they say, the key thing is that your dd is upset. They SHOULD be concerned and keen to make sure she understands she's not being blamed for anything and feels able to take part in all activities.

If you don't get a good response from them, then I agree with people saying you might need to think about taking her out - why make her go somewhere where she's not happy? But check with dd first as she may think being taken out means she's done something wrong.

Yep she's 4 - missed out on school last year by a fortnight!

Will mention it to nursery mgr or possibly assistant mgr tomorrow as I find him a bit more approachable. Thing is I think if I give them any opportunity to think about it they will come up with some explanation/excuse as to why it happened.

DD has just told me that the mngr cut her dinner up for her today (roast lamb so not necessarily easy for a LO to cut), and told her she was lazy for not doing it herself.

Am really going to have to take this further aren't I?

It does sound like it - can't understand why people who are not naturally kind and loving would want to work with kids. V. bizarre IMO.

Am going to mention it to Asst Mngr when I see him tomorrow. I find him much more approachable and DD absolutely worships him (as do all the kids)!

Have spoken to her again and she maintains that she likes nursery and the staff and wants to stay there. She made a 'best friend' about 6 months ago and we've been seeing her and her mum regularly which has been lovely. She's also talking a lot about another couple of little girls that she seems to play with a lot (not to mention the boys ), so the last thing I want to do is disrupt her this close to her going to school.

It's not so much their behaviour that bothers me TBH but the fact that I feel if I say anything to them they are not entirely honest in their response, but DD is obviously well cared for there on a practical level and seems generally happy.

At 4.4 she can be a bit of a drama queen so I do wonder if she's blown it all out proportion. I suspect if she had just got on the trampoline that nothing would have ben said - the carer in question is quite young and prone to coming out with some dubious comments IMHO so probably just misjudged the situation and how seriously DD would take it. That said, when DH came through the door she ran straight into his arms and told him what had happened and got upset again.

Will just see how it goes with AM tomorrow.

Also - how old were your DC's when you started giving them a knife to eat their dinners with and cut their own food?

Haven't got round to doing that yet, and suspect I might have left that a bit on the late side so the lunch situation is probably partly my fault .

sounds like the nursery staff are young and inexperienced. It does take skill and knowledge to be able to handle a room full of pre-schoolers. Singling children out and forcing them to sing is not good for their emotional development, it can damage their confidence and self esteem if it is carried out over a length of time. BUT, be aware that children are prone to exagaration and you only hear their side, they are not subjective, they tell you what you want to hear. In other words, they know which buttons to press. IMHO I do think it is worth mentioning to the staff when your child says something about them, they need to realise that they are accountable for their behaviour. You could say something when you drop off like "DC told me that she couldn't go on the trampoline because she didn't sing, but I said you wouldn't be that mean" that should embarrass them and make them realise that you know what happens at nursery. As for using a knife and fork, the children in my pre-school use them at 3. I don't give them spoons at all. Nearly all of them are able to use them now, certainly all the 4 years olds, there are a couple of August children still struggling.

The nursery staff sound like they can do with some additional training. It is very good that the Assistant Manager is approachable.

DS is 2.2 and we've always given him a knife. He started off with a plastic one which was as blunt as anything. He now has a knife and fork which can cut most food but I'm very doubtful he'd manage roast lamb!

Good luck with the nursery.

I think it's very hard to tell exactly what happens in these situations

I had a long conversation with DD yesterday who was CONVINCED that there was a bear at nursery - in fact, she was SO detailed in her descriptions that I started doubting myself and wondering if she was actually right

So like you say, she might have blown things out of proportion in her head - if she is generally happy, I wouldn't worry too much

That is shocking and actually I feel that it is bullying. I think you should look for alternative care, this treatment could affect your DD's confidence.

Yes, I know what you mean mp. DS is convinced that there is a frog living upstairs. He tells me this every morning at 6am so it is pretty real to him.

My 4 year old has a very active imagination too!

I do think that a member of staff telling your DD she is lazy and making her feel scared (to go on the trampoline) is wrong, wrong,wrong.

Well, got there this morning. Asst Mgr on holiday and Manager not in til later as has to drop her own kids off at school.

Spoke to the girl who let us in who turned out to be the one who had done the singing yesterday (and one who DD normally gets on really well with). Apparently she had said to DD:
"Come on DD - I know you can do better than that" as she wasn't singing v.much/loudly and normally is v. enthusiastic , but she was allowed to go on the trampoline and sing her 'solo'

DD still denied she had been allowed to go on trampoline in front of her so said we will have a chat when she gets home. She is going through a bit of a 'porky pie' phase but can't think why she would make something like this up, and in so much detail. I've queried with her what happened 2 or 3 times before we went in this morning and her story was always exactly the same so am at a complete loss as to who to believe.

Will have a chat with her later and see what comes of that.

Am not raising the knife thing - suspect I may have been a bit slack on that front and that is time to get her some proper cutlery of her own !

DD does have a very active imagination (although when she told me there was a caterpillar on the stairs a couple of weeks back she was right - DH and his bloody golf bag!)

And yes, purepurple, the staff at the nursery are all on the young side.

My oldest DD was like that at that age, in her fianl year at nursery she would tell us some very detailed stories that on checking with the nursery staff were completely made up (It was things about the behaviour of other children that the nursery would have had no reason to lie about).

OK - now we've established DD is possibly being a tike - how the hell do I put a stop to it?

She knows the story about the boy who cried wolf so don't think that'd be much help.

Any suggestions much appreciated!

My ds, nearly 4 has started with the 'porky pies' with things that have happened at nursery mainly. I just tell him 'well I will ask miss x tomorrow and he then changes his story. Or tell him he wont be able to watch his favourite programme - it seems to work.

On the other note - I give him a knife with most meals to encourage him to use it - but with some foods I cut them up for him, just depends what he is having.

He will start reception in September 2009 too but if I thought the nursery staff weren't treating him properly I would move him out of there!

What on earth do they do with shy children then? Make them sing? What if they don't WANT to do a solo?

Re the knife, I've only just managed to get DS to start using a spoon himself, and he's 21 months. I'm working on it, as are the nursery staff, but if doesn't want to, he just won't and will go hungry rather than use it to feed himself. So I doubt I will be getting him to use a knife anytime soon!!!!

Aideesmum - My DD actually wanted me to raise the issue with the staff. She is still maintaining that she's telling the truth (although DH reworded a couple of questions and she was slightly wobbly - said someone helped her onto the trampoline but she didn't go on it )

When I picked her up today, before I'd even got through the door the manager said she'd been uncooperative this morning and they'd had to have words with her on a few occasions. The other couple of times I've raised something with them I've had them come straight back with 'she's being difficult'. TBH I was quite short with the mgr, gave DD a big hug and got her out ASAP.

Have had a good talking to her at home, she admits she was running around like a maniac indoors and didn't stop when she was asked to.

Thing is although this is making me feel uneasy, DD says she enjoys it, likes the staff, doesn't want to try somewhere else, and in the absence of her (poorly) best friend this week, has chummed up with 2 more little girls that she's only mentioned in passing previously.

I have HV coming round next week so will have a chat to her. We've had a few things going on over the last year and I wonder if it's all gotten on top of her a it, combined with knowing that she's starting big school this year.

Have invested in a little person size proper cutlery set this morning though!

good luck with the cutlery. Sounds like your DD is ready for school, if she is one of the oldest it may be that she isn't being stimulated enough. What does she enjoy and do the staff accommodate this? Talk to them about this, that is their job after all. The children in my care all have individualised learning plans and their interests are followed up by placing enhancements in the areas they enjoy playing with. I always ask the children what they want to play with and we only get manic running around inside if it is raining too hard to go outside. As for making stuff up, a little boy told his mum that I said his jacket was "rubbish" luckily, she is a member of staff and knows me. I did say that he already had a jumper on and didn't need a fleece and a coat to go outside cos we were only goung out for a little while but his interpretation was that his fleece was rubbish

Thanks purple - I think DD is probably more than ready for school, and although we've had a learning plan type chart home a few months back - I have my doubts that the nursery staff do enough to stimulate individual children, especially if like DD they are a bit on the 'spirited' side!

The staff are all v. young, I think the Manager and Asst Manager are the only ones over about 23 (and AM can only be 27/8 - although he is lovely), and they've had a lot of little ones (1+) start since September. It's a v. small private nursery 16/18 kids per session, so they're not in separate rooms and I suspect they're all a bit tied up with them and perhaps inclined to leave the older ones to their own devices to an extent, although I know there is some structure to what they get up to and DD has certainly learnt a fair bit in the year and a bit she's been going.

TBH I am not keen on the nursery manager and not entirely sure I trust her (not in a way that would be detrimental to DD's well being, obviously), and I think this is making me feel uneasy so anything DD tells me that's a bit negative I am perhaps inclined to blow out of proportion a bit. I know what a little madam she can be! I've also been a SAHM since being made redundant 7 months ago so I guess I have more time to dwell on this stuff!

Am sure she'll be fine with the cutlery - she has already put it to the test this morning on one of Daddy's giant cooked breakfasts

Think you need to be a bit careful here - I don't think any trained nursery manager would call a child 'lazy' or exclude them for not singing. If you are giving your child lots of attention/questions about 'what went wrong today'- they are likely to give you negative answers and repsond to this. I'd try to focus more on the positive aspects of their day and what they enjoyed.