Concerned about nursery discipline

[NameChange101]

Have name-changed in case nursery staff read this!

Is it acceptable to

(a) continue shouting at child who is on a "time-out" for bad behaviour even when child has been reduced to tears?

(b) to ignore a child who is sobbing whilst on "time-out"?

(c) to physically force child to do something you ask them, i.e. child won't fold their legs so grab their legs and do it for them?

Children in question are 3 years old.

Thanks for any opinions.

(a) No
(b) No
(c) Depends on all circumstances, but probably not

imo none of these are acceptable.

No

a and c NO but b I think is ok depending on circumstances. I think the point of time out is to ignore for a couple of mins, so even if they cry they stay there for 2 mins and then come off and have cuddle etc

No to all of them.
More information and we can comment more coherently.

Only C, and only if it's not a "grab" but a gentle guidance. i.e. "This is how we cross our legs Jack"
Why do you ask?

Thanks very much for your replies. I x-posted this on the Parenting topic (just to cause confusion ) and here is my reply to questions raised over there:

"Why would I even need to ask this? Because when I spoke to Nursery Manager (with whom I have a good relationship) about (a) and (b) she became very defensive and said that they had to act in accordance with parents' wishes. I infered that she meant that some parents actually want their child to be disciplined to an extent where by they are reduced to tears and then left sobbing whilst they ponder the error of their ways. Now I know there are some tough parents out there so I just wanted to check that I wasn't being overly-sensitive to what I'd witnessed so thought I'd ask for some feedback before I take this further.

It made me realise that I'd never seen a written version of the nursery's behaviour management policy and I'd never been asked how I'd want DD dealt with should she misbehave (she chooses to be an angel at nursery!).

None of the above are acceptable to me. The quiet step -yes! Shouting at and ignoring sobbing children - no!"

Am really appreciated all input as up til v recently DD has been happy there (goes part-time) but is now having ishoos and am trying to work out why.

That should have been "am really appreciating"!

Partnership with parents should be promoted but not when it compromises good practice!! No child should be put through a situation like that in any eary years provision. IMO the manager is getting defensive because she knows her practitoners should not be behaving in that manner. I would put your comlaint and concerns in writing and ask to see a record of their previous complaints. (they have to show you by law).

I'm sort of curious about everyone's reaction to b) because quite frankly my DS sobs when he's in timeout BECAUSE it's time out. But it's the only thing that works at the moment when he's throwing a screaming fit or hitting (only 19 months old, I REALLY don't want the hitting to become a pattern).

I don't usually take him out until he stops the crying/tantrum. Usually by the time he's ready to come out he's chirpy and bubbly and all is good with the world. Occasionally he will give a sad cry when I go to get him out, and then we will sit and have a cuddle.(time out is in his cot).

I suppose it would be different if it were a broken hearted sob.

None of the three are acceptable and I think I would have a serious re-think if DSs nursery treated any of the children there like this.
I don't generally believe in "time out" anyway so on that basis alone it bothers me.

that this is going on in your childs nursery!
Would be very upset if I ever saw any of this and would speak to the manager straight away. They are only little FGS and shouldn't have to be put through this is a supposed place of care.

I would say no to a) and c).
As tw70 says, for b) it depends whether the crying is broken hearted sobbing, or just fed up with being told off and put in time out. The staff should be able to recognise the former, and realise that something is wrong, and deal with it immediately. I wouldn't want a 3yo to be in time out for more than a couple of minutes in nursery.
I would be persistent in getting to the bottom of what the nursery policy (and practice) is on these issues. You need confidence in the place if you are to leave DD there.

I'm a nursery nurse and it's totally unacceptable to shout at a child. Time out is usually given as a last resort and normally lasts only for 3 or 4 minutes (the age of the child in minutes iykwim). As to ignoring the child whilst crying it does depend on what sort of crying. Some kids start crying for attention which underminds the whole time out discipline, children do have to learn that some behaviour is unacceptable in nursery.

In most cases diversion works pretty well but it really does depend on what the child is doing, constant hitting, kicking etc has the child in a time out but with an adult gently telling child why we don't kick etc.

In certain circumstances we do force a child to do things, ie to stay sitting at the table at lunch time until everyone has finished eating. But never would i force a child to cross their legs, it's bad practice.

I would have a word with the manager and if you feel at all uncomfortable with what she says then please take little un out of nursery and find one with better practices.

b) is acceptable if the child is doing the 'crying whilst checking to see that everyone is looking' kind of crying.

a) is a no, IMO.

c) Depends what you mean by 'grabbing'