Nursery funding - consumable costs

[Bornunderpunches]

I’ve just had an invoice through from the nursery that my son began attending last month. We are covered by the 15 free for 2 funded hours and he only attends 2 mornings as week for 3 hours. Their bill states they’re charging me £5 a session for consumables as well as ‘value added’ they offer at their nursery settings, what does this value added even mean? They do not provide meals, nappies wipes or anything we have been sending him with everything for his sessions so I’m really confused about what this cost actually covers?

Ask them what it covers.

You do realise the funding they get is a few pounds an hour. It isn’t enough.

I don’t care if they’re not meant to charge extra or whatever the rules are. If they don’t, they will close. These people look after your child, pay them. You already get a decent discount with the funded hours so you can pay towards it.

Do they have wee day trips? Or things like zoo lab coming in to visit? Only other thing I can thing it could be is on day trips or activities

Any additional charges are supposed to be voluntary, and yes they are to cover consumables like nappies and food. Many nurseries flagrantly break the rules on this, make it out as if it's compulsory, and use it to top up the hourly rate. The hourly rate they get may not be sufficient, but that doesn't mean they're allowed to break the rules on this.

My child went to a fabulous childminder whose only additional topper was for meals. My other child (due to unavailability at said child minder) went away okay-ish nursery, where it was food plus £1 an hour. They then moved to an absolutely brilliant nursery, where everyone brought a packed lunch and the only additional charge was £15 a year voluntary contribution to snack fruit!

So it's not universal and you can find places without it without skimping on quality.

Glue? Activities?

we pay £25 a day in consumables - that does include food, would include nappies and wipes if my son used them, and activities.

I’m a childminder and do charge for food, nappies and outings - comes to just under a tenner a day and unless funding rate increases I will have to increase these charges. I can’t imagine running a nursery where they have to cover business rates, increased min wage and NI. Funding rates are just not sustainable. On their invoices they are meant to say what the money is for and they will get into trouble for not doing so. However we are no longer allowed to say “it’s for running a business” or “because we want to pay our highly trained staff living wage and not min wage”. Nurseries around me are closing as parents are choosing not to pay these extras. I once had dreams of opening a nursery, but in this climate I’d not touch it with a barge pole. I’ve seen numerous articles in the press demonising private nurseries. The government are putting all their money into school nurseries - having children from 9 months at school nursery might be the choice for some parents, but having other options is important. I’m worried the early years sector will become like dentistry as some private nurseries and childminders will eventually stop offering funding and go fully private again. I no longer offer funding to 3 yr olds as I just can’t afford it. Parents were happy in the past to top up to my day rate (no one never used to question why I did this as they believed I should be able to make a living!) but this is no longer allowed. I’m a self employed person but my pay is being dictated by the local authority.

Even in a school nursery we’re asked to pay £30 a month.

Yes.

We pay our CM this because the money (and our government) is a joke.

@WhatILovedno school nursery takes 9 month old babies!

I will never understand why this was ever (going back 15 plus years) set up as “free” hours rather than “here’s a voucher for £x towards your childcare costs each week”

Because childcare vouchers already existed, which was a fairly similar scheme but “free childcare!!” sounds like a new policy and is a much bigger vote winner?

I’ve heard this ‘government wants all children in school nurseries’ thing a few times. Near me I can think of only 2 schools which have a nursery on site (and neither are actually run by/part of th school). Both are term time only, 9-3 and only take children from age 3.

Do many schools have year round nurseries with extended opening for children age 9 months??

I’m torn on the consumables charge. It’s bloody annoying (and at ours is nearly £30 a day for age 3+!) but equally the government doesn’t fund it properly. I don’t want to complain and has them decide not to accept the funding any more. £30 a day is still a bargain for 10 hours of childcare, I can’t find anything that cheap for my older daughter!

I imagine the intention was to stop providers simply upping the fees once free hrs were (almost) universal. Eg if a parent paid £100 a day, the gov said “here’s a voucher for £90 a day”, they didn’t want the nurseries, over time, just ending up with daily fees of £150 because they know the parents were previously able to pay £100. And I guess that’s what banning compulsory consumables fees/top up fees is supposed to stop as well.

But the system doesn’t work if the free hours aren’t properly funded.

The majority don’t now but have a look at phase 2 of the school nursery plan by gov - there are some that have opened in northern boroughs to babies. Big press release last month. Some near me (se London) are accepting children from 2 now. I think increased school nurseries in areas of need are great (particularly in areas of deprivation) but shouldn’t be only choice. And certainly choice should not be reserved for solely the wealthy.

Do you not value them at £5 of your own money a day?

School nurseries have always accepted from 2y10 months as an ‘pre preschool’ year often for the under 3y 15 hours eligibility, and that pre dates the 9 month funding.

I can’t see anything in the phase 2 school nursery plan that suggests some are taking from 9 months? In fact the document specifically only mentions 2 year olds under certain criteria and 3&4 year olds.

The plan basically only states that they can apply for funding, and given the facilities in school nurseries and private nurseries can be at either end of the spectrum it does seem that many school nurseries need investment.

Top ups are a complex one but nurseries must comply with the law - http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/children-young-people-and-families/childcare-providers-and-early-years-practitioners/frequently-12 - if you’re concerned the chargers are not transparent and the nursery doesn’t offer any clarity, you should raise with your local authority who has a responsibility to ensure any top up fees are legally compliant.

If I could have got a half days childcare for a fiver I would bitten their arm off. The Govt funding just doesnt cover costs, surely this is a well known issue by now?

At DS nursery it was to cover the cost of art materials, extra food for example they would try noodles for Chinese New Year, have pancakes with assorted toppings on pancake day, make fairy cakes and decorate them for an afternoon activity. It would cover the cost of seeds, soil and plant pots for a planting session in the spring, a small chocolate egg for each child at Easter, a gift from “Santa” at Christmas etc - all things which are classed as extras and don’t come out of the nursery budget.

Don’t pay it if you don’t want to and take you son out - then what will you do? Or query it if you want to (be that parent). The fact is that nursery funding is not able to cover their operating costs - staff, the building, insurance, consumables etc. £5 a session is cheap.
Nursery education has been seriously underfunded by successive governments. It’s not ‘Free’ and that’s the problem as some people have the expectation that it will be.

Some do, my 12 year old went to one!

You put a 9 month old baby in a state funded school nursery 12 years ago?

I find that quite literally impossible to believe.

Ok 😆

You still had to pay by the way, it was a state school but not free.

That’s not true. I know of two schools in my county which have nurseries which take babies.

I also had a 6 month old baby in a state nursery school 15 years ago although that wasn't attached to a primary school.