Staff ratios

[Happyharper]

I just did a settling in morning at DS nursery. It's not great but it's are only option currently as in the middle of moving. There were 9 children under 2 so 3 staff members. I was there around an hour and on multiple occasions one or two members of staff left the room for around 5 mins. Is that legal? There were times where it was only me and only one other worker for 8 children while one went to change a baby. The other just disappeared. Should I raise with the nursery manager or is 5 minutes without the correct ratio okay? I dread to imagine what it's like when they are not being observed.

5 minutes being over ratio while someone pops to the toilet is acceptable. Not ideal, but manageable and the reality of working in a busy setting.

Leaving one member of staff with 5 children over is not acceptable. The legal ratios for under 2 in England is 1:3. If the other staff member needed to leave they should have called for someone to come and cover. Absolutely raise it.

@hoarahloux thank you so much for your reply. I'm glad you agree this seems odd. The seemed to be going out to get arts and crafts and to change the children.

I don't want to start off on the wrong foot with the nursery as of course it will get back to the staff that I've raised it. I'm worried it will impact how they treat DS but I'm also concerned this is obviously something that happens all the time if it's going on when they have parents visits. I'm dreading them starting even more now!

Totally normal - there will be times when one person is settling a baby to sleep and another is changing a nappy and one member of staff is watching the other children.
The ratio is across the building, a 1:3 ratio doesn't mean all the staff will be in the room all the time.

Definitely not totally normal. Staff members shouldn’t need to leave the room to settle a baby and ideally nappy changing facilities should be a sectioned of area of the same room. One person occasionally leaving the room for a short time, leaving 2 present is acceptable. I’d 100% raise this with the management.

I’m afraid it’s both - unacceptable and perfectly usual.
It's not the staff’s fault. They will be overloaded with daily tasks such as laundry, writing reports, preparing meals and washing up, changing nappies, answering the phone.

All the nurseries I have worked in have had separate nappy changing, sleep and milk kitchen areas.

Thank you everyone. I wonder if it's worth raising as I'll have no idea whether it will happen again or not even if they say it won't. Should I be raising with Ofsted?

And call who, exactly? Someone from another room, lowering the ration in that room? Or should they have a float, doing nothing until called to fill in? And then people wonder about prices.

@doctorsleep surely they should have someone in the office who can step in to help? Or am I being unreasonable? I'm paying almost £900 a month for 2 days a week for this nursery ( going rate in London with no funding).

You can raise it if you want but the staff will be told that due to a complaint from you, they’re unable to go to the toilet during work anymore.

Staff-to-child ratios apply to the whole provision, not each room. Those are the Ofsted guidelines. Look them up on official websites.

It would be unmanageable to have someone from office running from room to room all day long. And office tasks wouldn’t be done. Go luck getting any admin or any phone answered if you are not at the desk. Office work is important around kids. Allergies management. Changes in people allowed to pick up a child, …. it is not just bills and invoices.

You are not being unreasonable but your expectations clash with the reality. £110 per day is within the average for London.

@xla that's what I'm worried about. I don't want to be difficult or blame the staff that are already stretched. But they weren't just going to the toilet- unless they are all ill?! They are left multiple times and sometimes both at the same time.
@doctorsleep thank you it's helpful to know this is the reality. I might pursue an even more expensive option which has higher ratios.

Whole building ratios can be used at times like sleep times. It is not for use as a general rule and can only be used if the safety of the children isn't compromised.

1 staff member with 8 babies absolutely means the safety is compromised. How would they explain that to an inspector?

earlyyears.blog.gov.uk/2023/04/20/how-staff-to-child-ratios-work/

Honestly it’s very strange to care this much. The ratio is across the entire building not each room.

@xla because honestly I don't think it's safe for one person to look after 8 1 year olds even if it's for 5 minutes. Do you?

No they wont be told that

Yes they absolutely would.

Safe? No. A necessity because the workers are underpaid and overworked? Yes.

All nurseries will be the same, they can't stop staff putting babies to bed or going to the toilet.

One of the three being out of the room to change a nappy, put a baby down in the sleep room, fetch snack, etc. is completely normal, and, as others have said, they still count for the ratio in this scenario. It's not realistic for most nurseries to have an extra staff member to do those things.

I would say two of the three being out of the room is not great staff deployment, and not something I'd want to happen regularly. To me it suggests that either the routines/timings or how the team work together needs to be looked at. That said, there will be times when one person has just gone to get Baby A down for a nap, and Baby B suddenly has a nappy blowout – so clearly someone has got to change B right away. However, the predictable things like the regular nappy change cycle, fetching/clearing snack, staff breaks, etc. should be timed around each other.

Our nursery does always have a manager on site who can and does come into the rooms when more hands are needed (and is present enough that even the babies know her), but I'm not sure how common that is.

@skkyelark thank you. There were changing facilities in the room but they chose to change the baby somewhere else. The babies also sleep in the same room so there should be little reason to leave so often.
I guess I'll just have to suck it up or find somewhere I think might be better. The standard of nurseries have been appalling. I don't blame the staff or the management I know it's challenging.

That's really, really hard, when you can't find anywhere you're happy to leave your wee one. Could you look at nurseries and childminders on the way to work for either you or Daddy to widen the pool a bit?

Are you willing to pay £1,200 a month so they can have an extra member of staff to cover five minute breaks?

@skkyelark thank you it's so tough! I looked at 10 around where we are living and didn't like any of them so I picked the most convenient but I think it may be a mistake! We're only living here temporarily before moving up North so I thought it would be okay but now I'm not convinced.
I've also had no updates on his day on the app and this is his first settling in day away from us. Yesterday I had some very minimal updates about food and nappies after he left. Is this normal?
@ArtTheClownIsNotAMime yes I'm considering switching him to a nursery which is 1.1k a month with better ratios.

No they really wont 🤣