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Original poster

Cutting hours before even starting?

24 replies

Ebnf · 02/08/2025 01:01

After some advice.

3yo DD is non-verbal with suspected GDD. Currently awaiting an EHCP for communication.

DD has attended a mainstream nursery for the past year in a 2-3yo room at a school based nursery 3 days per week. We’ve recently moved and so put her name down at the nursery by our house that is attached to our preferred primary to allow for a smoother transition into reception. We upped her hours to 5 school days. All fine.

We went for a Teddy Bears Picnic as a transition activity for one hour. My DD got a tad overwhelmed as there was 40 children plus their adults in the room. She didn’t get upset, she just threw a crayon. I moved her to another activity and she was fine. I should add at this point, it was the day after her third birthday, she’d had a party and two late nights, plus a full day in nursery the day before. She was very tired so didn’t massively engage with activities, was happy playing in the sandpit and going on the slide.

we then got offered a return visit the day after, again for one hour. I was told she was fine, happily playing with an older child. All good right? Wrong. I was told from these two hour visits that they’d only be able to offer her 1:15-3:15pm. At this point, they’ve made no contact with her old nursery or seen any paperwork outlining her needs for her EHCP.

They’re saying that they can’t “keep her safe”. They have worries about her being on the field with the rest of the school, that they won’t be eating in the classroom, and that they can’t have “eyes on” her. She had a risk assessment from her old nursery that mentions her stuffing food in. This is due to tongue tie (awaiting surgery) and I safeguard her by chopping food smaller and putting it in small pots so she only has access to one thing at a time.

Surely cutting her hours down to 10 per week when she’s been accessing nearly 28 is detrimental? Can they actually do this?? I’m so stressed as I cannot actually go to work if she can only attend 1:15-3:15pm? They’re saying this is just for the first week, but that won’t give her time to settle and have hours upped.

Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
TickyandTacky · 02/08/2025 07:05

Which is it? Only able to offer her 10 hours due to safety?

Or 10 hours of settling in sessions during the first week?

CircleofWillis · 02/08/2025 07:10

I think this is what fine if it is only for the first week. Ask them about their transition plan to full time. Also ask them about their long term plan to manage lunchtimes and snacks as it does sound as if she will need close watching around food.

LavnderBlue · 02/08/2025 07:51

💯 This 👆

Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 08:24

TickyandTacky · 02/08/2025 07:05

Which is it? Only able to offer her 10 hours due to safety?

Or 10 hours of settling in sessions during the first week?

10 hours due to safety, but they will review at the end of the first week. But no reassurance this will actually change. My issue is the fact we gave up a place at a nursery to get sorted for transition and now we’ve been offered significantly less hours. Both me and DH work full time in schools so there’s no option to book time off to accommodate this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 08:26

CircleofWillis · 02/08/2025 07:10

I think this is what fine if it is only for the first week. Ask them about their transition plan to full time. Also ask them about their long term plan to manage lunchtimes and snacks as it does sound as if she will need close watching around food.

I can wholeheartedly say she doesn’t need close supervision with food. She would need watching like any other child would. She doesn’t need to be sat separately or with a 1:1 as they suggest.

My argument is how is this a “reasonable adjustment” to her day cutting her hours down to a third when they’ve met her for two hours?

OP posts:
Anewuser · 02/08/2025 08:30

I thought this is exactly why you have transition days, settling in sessions and home visits? The handover from her previous nursery must have already happened?

Why do they now think they can’t keep her safe? What are they hoping will happen in this first week?

I can see they may want to be looking at a 1-2-1 but surely that happens during the EHCP when they can provide evidence - which will only happen if she’s there.

I would be fighting this.

Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 08:33

The visit was the Tuesday and Wednesday and they contacted her old nursery Friday.

We are waiting on her ECHP but we are under no false illusion she won’t get top band funding, and my worry is of she doesn’t, those hours won’t increase. I know from experience that top band won’t fund a 1:1. Her old nursery even said they’ve removed Velcro support for her in summer term.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 02/08/2025 08:48

Declaration of interest - I’m disabled.

the nursery have to make reasonable adjustments.

but that doesn’t mean they have to take your child, because if the adjustments they have to make to their normal way of working are unreasonable (essentially either very big adjustments or any such adjustments have a detrimental effect on the offering to the other children) then they don’t have to do it.

you might be surprised how low a bar reasonable adjustments are.

they don’t think that they can make reasonable adjustments and so they are suggesting a trial period, probably to check how much staff time/changes etc they need to make.

if you are confident that your daughter does not need additional assistance with eating etc then go ahead.

it sounds like she has been in nursery for some time already, in which case the ?GDD will become more evident over time as the other children move on faster. In practice this is likely to mean that she requires more and more support to access provision at their level. (I have taught children with GDD).

in particular at 3plus the ratios drop and if there is a qualified teacher in the pre school room they can be very low. If she’s not yet communicating verbally they may have concerns around toileting and communication with adults generally.

TickyandTacky · 02/08/2025 08:59

It's also very different her being in an established setting where she is settled and where the staff know when she is safe and when she needs help, to a brand new environment where they are still working these things out and helping her settle. You know your dd but they dont so it will take extra resources for them.

Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 09:24

I completely get this. I promise I do. I’m just wondering how they can be so sure of her need based off two hours. They’ve never seen her eat, play on the field, access the setting in routine etc. I’d understand if she’d done a week or two and there were problems. But this setting only accepts 3/4year olds so it’s a new cohort, so how do they know my child will be the one who struggles to settle vs any of the others?

OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 02/08/2025 09:53

Speak to the headteacher. Put it in writing,.

If this is a state school nursery, the statutory suspension and permanent exclusion guidance applies. Most of the statutory guidance applies to those below compulsory school age. The parts that don’t, e.g. alternative provision for longer lawful suspensions, specifically say they don’t apply to those below CSA/only apply to those who are CSA. The school should not be unlawfully informally excluding DD. As a state school nursery, they also can’t lawfully refuse DD a place because of her disability.

If the school needs more support to know how to support DD, if your area still has the specialist teaching service, have they asked the specialist teaching service for advice? Have they applied for early years inclusion funding?

Where are you in the EHCP process? Is the LA sticking to the timescales?

Octavia64 · 02/08/2025 09:55

So it sounds like this is a setting where they are using the school facilities.

you mention that they will not eat in the classroom - so presumably they go to the main school (infants/primary?) hall for lunch.

you also say they they don’t think they can keep her safe on the field while implies again that they mix in with the main school at some playtimes.

i’ve worked in a primary school. In the dining hall there are usually two dinner ladies and about a hundred kids.

on the field at lunchtime three adults to the whole school which is 210 kids from age 4 to 11.

the ratios at 2-3 room (I just looked them up, I don’t do early years) is 1 adult to 5 kids.

the move from 1:5 to 3:210 is a hell of a shift.

i had twins and no way would mine have been able to cope with normal primary school lunches at age 3 or with being mixed in with the dhole dchool.

if what I’ve surmised is right, this is setting suitable for fairly socially and emotionally advanced pre schoolers. It would not have been suitable for my twins and it definitely is not suitable for a non verbal three year old who is delayed.

Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 10:06

She has been in a school style setting already. Nursery and reception have a separate lunch in the hall and the nursery staff support the middays.

on the field there are many members of staff and middays that are out. I’m am happy they’re adequately staffed. My DD is used to a whole school setting, we are simply swapping one for another.

OP posts:
ToKittyornottoKitty · 02/08/2025 10:25

Ebnf · 02/08/2025 09:24

I completely get this. I promise I do. I’m just wondering how they can be so sure of her need based off two hours. They’ve never seen her eat, play on the field, access the setting in routine etc. I’d understand if she’d done a week or two and there were problems. But this setting only accepts 3/4year olds so it’s a new cohort, so how do they know my child will be the one who struggles to settle vs any of the others?

Exactly they’ve only seen her for 2 hours, so they are saying for the first week itl just be 10 hours while they monitor things right? That sounds reasonable, surely it’s better they manage the fact that they aren’t certain they can keep her safe? The alternative is surely worse

TickyandTacky · 02/08/2025 12:13

Ebnf · 02/08/2025 09:24

I completely get this. I promise I do. I’m just wondering how they can be so sure of her need based off two hours. They’ve never seen her eat, play on the field, access the setting in routine etc. I’d understand if she’d done a week or two and there were problems. But this setting only accepts 3/4year olds so it’s a new cohort, so how do they know my child will be the one who struggles to settle vs any of the others?

They aren't sure if her needs, that's exactly what we're saying! It's better to be safe than sorry, they want to start slow and steady and can always ease off/up her hours/ reduce her supervision as they become more sure if her needs.

Surely this is what every parent wants?

mrsnjw · 02/08/2025 13:28

I have two children going down an ehcp route starting with me in sept. Both are on a reduced timetable in order to make the transition successful. Their parents are completely supportive. It’s better to increase hours over a period of time rather than decrease them because a child is not coping or completely overwhelmed. We are absolutely not saying that the children cannot be full time but this transition is about their needs and what is right for them. Work with the school here. They have the best intentions for your child.

Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 14:24

So I just tell my work I can only work between 1:15pm and 3:15pm for a week, but no certainty it’ll increase? Because my child has needs the school aren’t sure of, but are saying they can’t keep safe? This is the point I’m making. It’s my literal childcare. They’ve made a very rushed decision off the back of two hours, and have sliced her hours to a third of her entitlement. Have any of the other 40 children had this happen to them? To see how they settle and what their needs are? To ensure they can be kept safe too?

OP posts:
mrsnjw · 02/08/2025 14:33

I do understand where you are coming from. Sadly, schools aren’t childcare, although I am fully aware that many parents can’t work if schools didn’t exist. Would another setting be a better fit for you? How will you cover the holidays and after school care?

mrsnjw · 02/08/2025 14:37

Have you met with the school sendco?

autienotnaughty · 02/08/2025 14:40

Given you can’t accommodate it . I’d either offer an alternative suggestion that is doable or say this doesn’t work for you and if they can’t meet need you will need to make alternative arrangements. Put it in email to the head, teacher, senco and disabilities team at your local authority if you have a contact number

Original poster
Ebnf · 02/08/2025 14:40

mrsnjw · 02/08/2025 14:33

I do understand where you are coming from. Sadly, schools aren’t childcare, although I am fully aware that many parents can’t work if schools didn’t exist. Would another setting be a better fit for you? How will you cover the holidays and after school care?

We only need term time. I want her to be in a school setting to best prepare her for reception class. She’s one of the youngest in the year so wanted her to have a solid foundation. But instead we’ve got 10 hours.

OP posts:
flawlessflipper · 02/08/2025 14:47

Please speak to the headteacher using the information in my pp. The school should not be informally excluding DD.

Geneticsbunny · 02/08/2025 18:13

Ebnf · 02/08/2025 14:24

So I just tell my work I can only work between 1:15pm and 3:15pm for a week, but no certainty it’ll increase? Because my child has needs the school aren’t sure of, but are saying they can’t keep safe? This is the point I’m making. It’s my literal childcare. They’ve made a very rushed decision off the back of two hours, and have sliced her hours to a third of her entitlement. Have any of the other 40 children had this happen to them? To see how they settle and what their needs are? To ensure they can be kept safe too?

Welcome to the world of being a send parent...
You could try a child minder or nanny for the other hours?

ToKittyornottoKitty · 02/08/2025 19:19

Ebnf · 02/08/2025 14:24

So I just tell my work I can only work between 1:15pm and 3:15pm for a week, but no certainty it’ll increase? Because my child has needs the school aren’t sure of, but are saying they can’t keep safe? This is the point I’m making. It’s my literal childcare. They’ve made a very rushed decision off the back of two hours, and have sliced her hours to a third of her entitlement. Have any of the other 40 children had this happen to them? To see how they settle and what their needs are? To ensure they can be kept safe too?

Well we don’t know, do you? Have you asked? Why not just keep her at her existing place if the new place doesn’t work for you? Or hire a childminder to cover the rest of the hours/apply for unpaid parental leave/take turns with her dad…

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