Help me decide between 2 outstanding please

[Spudtacular1000]

2x ofsted outstanding nurseries

Nursery 1

-5 min drive
-Give plenty of seconds for meals and had breakfast, morning snack, lunch and early tea 3 pm
-18 to 24 month old room with about 10 toddlers
-soft play in that room
-lovely outdoor area but not free flow
-no apprentices all very qualified
-manager was vague on some answers and hard to get some info of
-app but not updated only pics

Nursery 2

• 6 min drive
• more reluctant to give seconds and my LO is a healthy eater but when I probed more they said they would if there was ish. Give an extra snack at 2 pm though and tea at 4.
• 20 toddlers in 21 month to 2.5 yo room
• big rooms, structured activities to manage numbers
• Indoor outdoor flow
• Excellent communication with manager
• 2 apprentices in each room almost at level 2 but more staff in each room as more children
• app with all info food, sleep etc

Context : my child is a big eater and the 'good ofsted nurseries' are a bit further away or one we saw nearby had some safety issues with boiling water near children.

20 toddlers sounds like sheer madness.

I thought so but went to see it today and it was so calm and half were indoor and outdoor and they had structured activities. Was really well managed.

What are the facilities for 2yos like at nursery 1?

If your toddler is an outgoing, mile a minute type that needs regular changing of activities that a structured nursery approach would bring, then nursery 2.

if he/she is more reserved around people, quieter, happy to entertain themselves, good concentration for their age in doing their own activities for a while (ie won’t get into mischief when left in a more unstructured setting), is nervous about starting nursery, etc, then nursery 1

So upstairs no indoor outdoor flow but when we went they were all playing outside. Rooms are smaller but fewer in each room.

Probably more outgoing but I was questioning 20 in the room initially as I wasnt sure about it being overstimulating, disturbing eachother at nap time as well as attention at mealtimes and general attention?

I wouldn’t get hung up on things like not giving seconds etc. or indoor/outdoor flow. What does your gut tell you? Which setting do you feel more ‘at home’ with when you visit?

We’ve moved a lot and had experiences with so many nurseries and honestly, you can put all the pros and cons on paper and drive yourself crazy!

I'm such a fact driven person usually so I guess that's why I have the list and I honestly really value learning from other people's experiences!

Having said that, the first nursery felt more homey but I wasnt as comfy with the manager. But the 2 yo room for nursery 1 is upstairs and missing the indoor outdoor flow which was nice in nursery 2. (Although the outdoor area is lovely). The rooms are bigger in nursery 2 so maybe felt less homey?

I honestly don't know. :D

@Spudtacular1000 it feels like a huge decision and you just want to get it absolutely right. What about after nursery? A factor we looked at was the number of kids from our local nurseries who went to the school we wanted. And we went with the nursery with the biggest number heading to our chosen school. So we’ve ended up with DC going from baby room all the way to primary with familiar faces.

I would say it’s a shame about the nursery 1 manager. I do value our manager being so hands on and friendly. Always juggling babies and getting stuck in when we do drop or pick up. Maybe though she’s more hands on when you’re actually signed up and part of the nursery? Though shame not to be available and helpful to prospective parents too, if so.

I always had to feed my LO after their nursery meal but they were so happy that it didnt end up being an issue for me. (Apart from those days where we had to go straight out, and I forgot snacks).
SEN experience is a good indicator of somewhere that can flex to your child's needs

Yes it was just a vibe i got. I think she was familiar with the children though which is nice. She wasnt answering all our questions - quite vague. I really appreciate clarity. Not a deal breaker though.

Yes will give breakfast and dinner either way so that should be ok!

On balance nursery 2 sounds a bit like where we send my DS - theirs is done in school years so the 2& 3 year olds are in 1 big class of 24 with indoor outdoor flow, structured activities but lots of playing outside. The 1&2 year olds were split
into 2 smaller classes of 12 upstairs with option to play outside in set times of the day - so more like nursery 1.
DS is thriving there’s plenty of stimulation and we feel it’s preparing him well for school. initially I was concerned about the move to a larger class size but actually I think it’s a good thing. The class for the 3&4 year olds will be similar

Thank you very much for the reassurance!

For me, having worked in nurseries, I'd choose nursery 1 for my own child.
Too many toddlers and too many apprentices in nursery 2. Free flow garden access wouldn't be a priority for me especially at that age.

Thank you. Would you say it is still an issue if:

• the apprentices are working towards level 2 apparently.

• and the large numbers seemed really well managed with half inside and half out, structured activities and large rooms.

Strange they are only working towards level 2 not level 3, I'd assume this means a high turnover of staff as they will be replacing apprentices every year.

To be honest all nurseries are going to say the large numbers are really well managed. Mid morning when they have sent half the children outside will be the calmest time. I'm assuming they don't offer show rounds during the period where they're getting all the toddlers in, hands washed, sat for lunch, cleaned up, nappies changed, toileting, down for naps etc which is where the large numbers of adults and children in one space really makes a difference.

Nursery 2 sounds more profit driven, maximum capacity for income (number of kids) and minimum spending (food and staffing).

@Spudtacular1000A few things iv learnt from having my DC in nursery.

Large Chain nursery have a lot of rules and policies e.g. they wont wake them up from a nap. (Even if nap is causing bedtime issues) . Tbh Id personally avoid large chains

Ask as many local parents for feedback on fb community pages as possible.

Staff turnover - DC nursery has a high turnover lately of staff and constant bank staff being used. Ask if they often rely on temporary workers, will the same staff be in each day etc.

Don't just choose the nursery based on which one looks the nicest, go based on feedback and the feel you get. As from
experience your gut is often correct!!

I'm not sure how the qualifications work I assumed it would be level 2 first then 3. I didnt realise it had an impact on turnover!

Also them having 2 apprentices in a room i thought was equivalent of 1 apprentice in a smaller room if you see what I mean.

I rang at 5.45 PM yesterday and asked to look round at 8.45 am this morning so they wouldnt have had much notice. They seem really open i think and would let me come and see at another point in the day I hope!

Nursery 1 did have lots of notice and all the children were outside and the rooms were incredibly tidy.

I will ask about the temporary workers thank you!

They said they were flexible on lunch in the baby room as they let the babies take their naps and give lunch when they wake up if some are sleeping and they do a rolling snack time but meal times are sitting down together.

It had a handful of nurseries in the wider area so not sure if it would count as a chain thought.

I work in a nursery and we have free flow in our 1.5-2 room (2 year olds are upstair) and they benefit so much from it. Its a smaller room however but having that access helps a lot.

We have apprentices but they're all studying towards level 3. Not sure why only level 2 unless starting with that then moving on though more work! We only have one in each room however but theyre all so hard working and can tell the passion for the job is there. Obs everyone and everyplace is different.

But you get a feel for a place and that's why we always say to parents. Look at a few then make up your mind or write pros and cons etc. If still unsure maybe have another look? See if can offer a different time. Most places do tend to have set times and we do because of lunch times etc and people needing to cover but maybe if went morning go in the afternoon?

Also coming on to say trust trust trust your gut. Is your DC in nursery at the moment ? Have they spent much time away from you? If the answer is no then probably nursery 1 would be my choice as it can be overwhelming getting to know lots of members of staff as well as children (although every child is different and you’ve mentioned your dc is outgoing)

Don't thjnk portion sizes or seconds really matter if they will be getting fed at home anyway - sounds like they’re at that age when just wolfing anything down regardless (but like my dc) so not going to starve with only one portion

How does free flow work in a nursery in the middle of winter when it’s absolutely chucking it down all day? Will the kids ultimately all be kept inside ?

but definitely go with your gut 💕

Thanks for your insight

Level 2 is just a lower level qualification, most apprentices would start at level 3. I'd assume the level 2 thing is maybe just that they are younger and cheaper eg they can pay them £7.50 an hour rather than the qualified adults being on £12.50+

It's not so much about having notice for a show round, more that a morning visit with half the kids outside is going to be the calmest and easiest part of the day.

I'd also wonder why they are mixing under and over 2s in one room and would probably assume that's money saving too.

I see i didnt know that. I will double check on the qualifications side with the apprentices thanks.

With the mixed age room honestly it seems like it is helpful with potty training. They have a big focus on it in this room. The toilet facilities are just off the room so very accessible.