Free hours Vs cash equivalent. 3yr old nursery much more expensive than under 2s

[Eds565]

Hi All.

Would appreciate your thoughts as this seems very unfair and not how I understood the 'free' 15 and 30hrs .

Our nursery has changed it's fee structure so that whatever funding they receive for your child is deducted from a flat rate. Since under 2s receive £10/HR and 3+ get £5/HR the hours are effectively worth half compared to an under 2.
This means my 3yr old full time is £600/month more expensive than a 1yr old.
Ie £1800/child/month (regardless of age)
minus 30hrs x £10 x 4 weeks (£1200/m savings)
Vs
Minus 30hrs x £5 x 4 weeks (£600/m savings)

Surely the extra money from government of under 2s is expected to cover the additional costs of care (IE staff ratio of 1:2 Vs 1:8) and not to make kids more expensive as they got older?

Thanks.

The hours don't have a cash value, so they need to be given free. The nursery absolutely can't just deduct the funding.

From April 1st the nursery need to give you a clear invoice that shows - the number of free hours, the fees for additional private hours, charges for food and charges for any other trips, activities or consumables.

The nursery are not allowed to do that. That’s classed as a top up and is definitely not allowed. Contact your local authority.

The nursery should not be doing it that way - it's not allowed.

@Snozzlemaidis there a role in the local authority you'd recommend please?

EXAMPLE (of what I was expecting)
Term April to August. 22wks of which 13 funded (our nursery does fees start of term to start of next term).

My mental maths comes up with:
Total hours in term 1100 (22x50) -
Funded hours 390 (13x30)
Hours to pay 710 (1100-390)
Monthly cost is 710hrs/22weeks*51 weeks/12 months =138hrs per month need paying by consumer

10 hrs in day so
0-2 £8.50 =£1167/month
2-3 @£8.20/h=£1125/month
3+ @£8.00/h= £1097

Our invoice just says:
funded hours: 30 =£0
monthly costs to pay £1300/month.

There's no breakdown beyond that. I've asked about consumables and they said it was already included in the cost.

What are your thoughts?

Many thanks

@Eds565There will be staff at the LA who administer the Early Years funding. Look for contact details for Early Years staff or Family Information Service at your LA.

How many hours does your child attend?
If your child is there for 50 hours for example, over 22 weeks then that is 1100 altogether.
390 are free.
You pay their hourly rate for the other 710 which costs £1300 a month for 5 months.
Looks like they're charging you about £9.15 for the private hours.

I'd call the nursery and ask what their charge per hour is. It might be on their website.

https://early-education.org.uk/new-dfe-guidance-on-charging/

Comes in from 1st April

@littleluncheon
My child attends 5 days of 10hrs.
Local authority said I would need to make a formal complaint against the nursery for them to investigate. I only wanted guidance on the "top up" aspect!

They don't provide an unfunded hour price. I've requested this from them.

Legally from 1 April they will have to. I actually thought it was the law already but perhaps this is just my LA policy. To register to provide funded hours we have to provide a very detailed fees policy to the LA for approval and all parents must receive it before signing contract.

They will definitely need to tell you their hourly rate.
It doesn't sound like they are charging you a top up - just that they are making the unfunded hours more expensive, which is allowed. But they must be transparent about it.

@littleluncheonthanks for your help. Essentially they're making the unfunded hours for 1yr olds much cheaper than the 3yr olds...
I've asked the nursery to clarify the unfunded hours.
Thanks for your help

@littleluncheon

I'm confused. I'm pretty good with numbers (i work as a data insight consultant) but i can't follow this. It looks to me like we're being charged:
Total Cost -money back from government/LA. Which, in my understanding is a top up.

At the meeting on Tues, the nursery said this is explicitly not top up, as we're not paying the full amount, then getting money back, once the government/LA has provided funding. Instead it is a 'deduction', because the the money from government/LA is deducted from the our costs, before we get invoiced.

I asked the nursery the cost of their unfunded hours and this was their response:
"I am attaching a copy of our fee sheet which is really only for those parents who are not eligible for any funded hours (for example those parents who are here on working visas). There is an hourly rate of £12.00 however as we stipulated at the meeting, moving forward we will not be offering half days for any children eligible for funding. In real terms there is no hourly rate for funded children as this would only be applicable if a child was none funded attending half day sessions that occasionally needed to stay an extra hour on an ad hoc basis (if of course we had the space ratio wise). "
(N.b. their full day rate on the attached doc is £80/day)

I've attached their invoice, and the funding doc showing the costs as being:
<2 years: Total Cost per Month of £1806, minus
funding from government/LA of £1146 (~£10/h * 27.5hrs/week prorated X4.2 weeks/month) = £660/m

3 yrs old: Total Cost per month of £1700 minus
funding from government/LA of £605 (~£5/h * 27.5hrs/week prorated X4.2 weeks/month) = £1,095/m

In terms of detailed policy, the only reference, is:
The invoice will show clearly the £0.00 funding hours allocated along with our unfunded charges above the funded hours payable
The rest of the policy is about eligibility and what forms to fill in.

At this point i feel like giving up.

Many Thanks for all your support. It's appreciated.

Don’t give up, speak to your Local Authority. They can help look into this for you and will advise if their charges are permitted or not.

This is what the DFE says settings should be marking clearly on invoices:

A1.36 Invoices and receipts should be itemised, and local authorities should work with providers to ensure their invoices break down separately into:

• the free entitlement hours
• additional private paid hours
• food charges
• non-food consumables charges
• activities charges

Though they do have til Jan 26 to be fully complaint.
I would go back to the nursery and request that information - and if they refuse to give you a breakdown of the cost of additional private hours and any other charges then you could consider a complaint.

Thanks All.