Is the nursery system fair?

[Bathams]

Me and my wife work full time and have 2 boys at nursery. I think the system is unfair because, unlike schools, there are no terms, no holidays. Any time off for sickness or holidays still has to be paid for and at £90 per day per child, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, this is not cheap. It would be so much easier for the little ones to have time off, like the older children, and would also make it easier on hard working parents to be relieved from paying nursery fees for a few weeks each year, making the costs of holidays more affordable. I always remember the government saying many years back that you will always be better off working. This is clearly not the case if you have young children, unless for have a very highly paid profession. The free child care which is being phased in, is great for new parents. But is also a bit misleading for those in full time. For example, nurseries charge a morning session, typically 7.30 to 13.00, and an afternoon session 13.00 to 18.00. So, if you are eligible for 15 hours free childcare, this equates to about 1.5 days, and not 2 days, for those full time working parents. Switching to part time work might be an option for some parents but unfortunately not for us as my wife is working her way through a trainee nursing associate program which is a full time commitment.

Nurseries have relatively fixed costs, so if they gave you a couple of weeks off for a holiday, they'd just have to bump up your fees for the rest of the year.

You can find term time only nurseries where I am.

You sound like you want a pay as you go zero hours commitment type agreement! As PP states to maintain the legal ratios they have fixed costs and if you're child is sick they still need to pay their staff.

It’s not ideal, I agree, but you could look into preschools. There are lots round here and we have used them from 2 years onwards. It’s a more manageable day for the kids too.

How do you think nurseries will pay the staff if parents are given free holidays?

You sound extremely naive. Private nurseries work on a profit basis, and the margins are slim. Term time nurseries also exist, though I'm not sure how they would help your family if you both work full time. You just have to think of it as a spread cost.

Just wait till they are at school and they get 12 weeks holiday a year - have fun trying to cover those weeks between you. At least you can send an older child to holiday club in the school holidays - you wouldn't want to send a toddler.

There are term time nurseries if you want them.

The only saving grace with nurseries for me is they don’t close for holidays! We can make the most of cheap off peak holidays whilst we can!

Wait till your children are in school and you’ve got 13 weeks of holiday to cover between the two of you. You’ll be looking back to the nursery days with envy.

However, many primary schools have pre-schools which are term time only so do feel free to use those as and when.

Of course the nursery system is fair. Do you expect their bills to suddenly stop if you want your child to have a holiday? Should their gas and electric bills come to a halt because children are on holiday? The use of a nursery is optional, yes you need it if you want to work but it’s still optional. As PP say, there are term time settings around. What would you do however when they close for the holidays and you still need care? If you go on holiday, do you stop paying gas and electricity because you’re not in the house? Of course you don’t!

You are paying for a place at the nursery. If you choose to keep your children at home then their spaces still need to be available on your return. There’s nothing unfair about the nursery system, it’s something you signed up for and choose to use.

Our preschool starts at 2 and is term time. I use as I'm a teacher.
The flip side is the shock working parents get when their kids are at school as they have to cover more of the holidays and find things like holiday clubs. Surely it's better to have a more consistent, year round option for younger children as you are hardly going to want to send a one year old to a random holiday club.

So everyone in the nursery (kids and staff) would have to go on holiday for the same 5 weeks? That's not going to work. The place is being kept for your dc whether you use it or not. Sone nurseries do have set closure periods eg 2 weeks for Christmas you don't have to pay for and there's whining on here every year because some need them to be open.

My nursery shuts for a week over christmas. I've worked in ones that stayed open but only a quarter of the children came in. My current one, like a few others, also shuts for a week in the summer holidays. All the big jobs get done then like painting, replacing carpets and building walls etc.

Around where I used to live there were nurseries that had terms - because they were run by the local authority. The majority now are private businesses and run as such. The ones run by the local authority are now mostly closing as they can't afford to run them.

Move to a term time nursery or childminder if you only need term time care.

It is fair, because it applies equally to all parents. You are paying to keep a space open for your child at the nursery and you pay for every day you hold it, whether or not you use it. It costs the same to the nursery whether your child is there or not. I understand it is frustrating but it wouldn't work any other way.

Almost all parents make monetary sacrifices to cover the cost of childcare. For us taking one parent out of work to cover childcare came with similar sunk costs- I couldn't send my husband back to work to earn in the weeks I was off work and we had a surplus of childcare.

School terms are a pita and mean mega expensive holidays. Having kids is a money pit. A lovely money pit, but you just have to get used to the drain on your wallet.

There are term time nurseries in my area too. For younger children (pre 2 yo) and many pre-schools that are school hours and term time.

There is a big difference between private nurseries and schools in terms of how they are run as most nurseries are private businesses. Some childminders will do term time. You just need to shop around.

You knew the cost of nursery before you had the second child. You knew you would need to save for maternity cover - you know the cost of holidays:

We’ve all had to muddle through. Children are expensive and this is part of the cost:

You get 15 hours free, same as everyone else.

We actively avoided term time nurseries because we didn't have the annual leave from work to cover all the holidays. At least when they're in school we can use holiday clubs but not at these ages. Nurseries are specifically designed as childcare for working parents so need to be open to accommodate working parents.

My two children in two different nurseries and each gave us the choice of 39 weeks (term time only) or 50 weeks (all year round, 2 weeks off at Christmas), and funding spread accordingly.

We are charged per day not per session like yours seems to be.

I think it depends on whatever fee structure your nursery use, they're all different. If you wanted a term time only nursery, why didn't you look for one?

Nurseries have reached breaking point this weekend with multiple announcements over funded places. People will be lucky if they're still around by the end of the year.

Sounds like you’ve chosen a nursery that doesn’t suit your needs? Round here there are:

Year round 8am-6pm only nurseries

Nurseries where you can do 8-6 year round, 8-6 term time, half day annual or term time, etc etc etc

Nurseries that only follow the school day 9-3 and also follow school holidays

Playgroups

Childminders

Nannies

What we don’t seem to have is ‘school nurseries’ which everyone on MN always mentions. I don’t know any schools with nurseries attached. Other than private schools.

That's surprising- we are in greater London and our three local primary schools all have nurseries attached with intakes from 2 years old. Maybe it's a regional thing, but very common around here.

There is no one nursery system so you can't claim it's unfair when "it" doesn't exist.

Lots of nurseries are term-time only. Which would have been a pain in the arse for us so we used a year-round one. Ours allowed you 4 weeks a year of holiday as long as you gave enough notice so you got 4 weeks you didn't have to pay for.

Others will have entirely different systems.

This first sentence hits the nail on the head. A better question from the OP might have been "Should there be a state childcare system for babies up to starting school?".

Where I live there aren't any local term time only, full day nurseries. Lots of pre-schools but they have short hours. It's annoying as I'm a teacher, so definitely don't need a year round place.

Nurseries are never going to suit everyone's needs exactly. I'm embracing it and using the extra days to get on with diy and spending some one on one time with my primary aged child.