Pissed off with DS' nursery - AIBU?

[Moorhen]

We're only three weeks in and could be being PFB - am I?

DS (9 months) likes it there. He's eating well (even tho I wish they would stop doing cereal with sugar, using stock with salt etc but accept I may be being a crank about this).

They were reasonably OK about nap times but get a bit sniffy when I insist he is kept awake till 10.30 (if goes too early, wakes at 5am the next day and stays awake. Don't know why but later nap is only solution). They mutter about resources.

Got first invoice today. Prices have gone up by TEN PER CENT since I registered him in October, and no-one wrote to tell me! Cost now £38 for a day.

They are not flexible about times (£10 late charge if one min late), do not do ANY holiday reduced rates, close on Bank Holidays and I am not sure how much contructive activity he's actually getting as opposed to sitting on the floor with a rattle till he shouts... Crowning insult, have informed me £2 will be added to June bill to cover cost sun cream. WTF? Wd have thought could provide that...

OTOH is walking distance and, as I say, DS seems happy.

To be honest, re fees, closed days etc I think you won't find it any different elsewhere. Also I kind of think in a nursery environment you gotta go with the flow re naps. They get much tireder at nursery and if they're tired and cranky and in need of a nap then of course they'll put him down for one. But if you're not happy with the food that's another thing. And if, as it sounds to me, you're just not generally happy with the whole set up then move him now I would say. It really is a matter of trust and instinct and if you don't feel he's being well looked after then nap times, prices aren't really the issue are they?

tbh at that age, sugar in ceral , stock with salt and their inflexibility with his schedule makes me dubious aboout them. Your ds is still small. He may seem happy but hwe can't say if he isn't 100% happy IYSWIM so I'd go with my instinct. FWIW I don't think you are being too PFB (hate that term) at all.

Moorhen - did you go through all the options beforehand? I chose a childminder for my ds, because I found that I could have flexibility and also put in certain requests like nap time and feel comfortable that they would be respected.

Obviously you need to find a good cm, just the same as a good nursery, and I do not know your exact circumstances, but it has already been 3 years and was the best thing I ever did.

Nurseries are usually shut on Bank Holidays
The nap thing I can understand why they try to get all the babies to nap at the same time
The £10 for being a minute late is ridiculous though and the salt and sugar thing rings alarm bells. They should also write to inform you of increased rates.
We are asked to provide our own suncream. There's no way it costs as little as £2 to buy so I think you're lucky there.

sorry but apart from the food I think this is normal.

The food I am surprised about. They should not be using stock with salt in under a year - in fact I'm surprised they are - and if there are other things you don't want your child to have they should respect that. Could you supply your own cereal instead?

However the rest is normal IME. Have you asked them if you can provide your own suncream? You could always tell a white lie and say that you want to use your own brand for reasons of skin sensitivity.

Remember part of this is about dialogue - if you have concerns you need to tell them and find a way to work around it.

I think YABU about times, holiday reduced rates and bank holidays. That's all pretty standard.

Sun cream seems odd. We have to provide our own and send in a named bottle to make sure DCs don't have allergic reaction to something nursery gives them (and this is a nursery that provides everything apart from that).

Sugar, salt, and constructive activity I'd be more concerned about. What have they said he's been doing in his daily reports?

Nap times I can kind of see both sides (I can see that a nursery couldn't give every single child their own individual nap times, for example), but your request doesn't seem outrageous.

Do you think you'd be happier with a childminder?

all sounds usual re opening hours etc

WRT to the £10 fine if a minute late, nurseries generally have this in place to deter serial lateness.

shut on bank holidays = normal

£2 for sunscreem = much cheaper than buying a £9 bottle of soltan factor 50

nap times - not unreasonable for a young baby to have a particular nap time

food - what do they serve???? ask to see a menu/speak to the chef. I went nuts at DS's nursery when he was having cake everyday - truns out cake is a mere hint of sponge and fruit puree

Can I ask what the rationale is for late charges? Is it for late arrival or late picking up? (My ds's nursery doesn't have such charges.)

Late picking up, I assume (ours doesn't have it either, but it's not unusual). I seem to remember that studies have shown it can actually increase late pick ups, though, as parents see turning up late as an additional paid-for service rather than as being just inconsiderate.

ah yes, that was in Freakononmics wasn't it Port and Lemon about the late pick-ups . Agree with everyone that the holidays/bank hols etc are par for the course. Salt for under 1s is dodgy, would be less concerned about the sugar.

I don't think its unreasonable to expect a nursery to follow the childs routine rather than their own. My ds naps whenever he wants to during the day and the nursery has a policy of not imposing a routine. Obviously they have a set mealtimes but if a child is sleeping they just wait until they wake. Nursery food doesn't really suffer from being kept warm for half an hour.

I would be concerned about the salt thing and agree you should discuss with the cook. I'd also be raising the lack of structured activity - I think you need a balance there.

As for fees, late charges and the rest of it that all sounds standard (although they should have let you know they were going up). I'd be very happy with £38 a day! Having said that if you're instinct isn't good then it might be worth spending some time there with them and if you still aren't happy move him. Instincts are pretty much always right IMO.

Sugar on cereal is not on at all! As for fees etc standard terms and conditions. We also charge suncream charge of £2 if they want our factor 50 nivea or can bring own if prefer, although £2 is lot cheaper than whole bottle of cream.

Try to seperate you problems with fees from care, which came first? Are you unhappy because of fees and now looking at other things or were you unhappy with care then fee rise added insult to injury?

For what its worth doesn't sound a great nursery, our fee increase was about 3.5% this year.

I manage a nursery by the way. I would say go with your instinct. Also might be worth reminding them its actually a national standard that all children under 2yrs have to be given the opportuntiy to follow own routine so its not a case of they don't want to....... they have to do this. However if his routine is trying to be followed and its just due to him not settling etc then thats reasonable.

Hope you get it sorted

is it sugar on cereal - like sprinkled on weetabix?
or a sugary cewreal like coco pops?

Hi everyone,

Don't know if I can answer all questions, will try and cover ones that came up most:

Re going through options beforehand, I did consider cm rather than nursery, but really wasn't confident enough that I knew how to pick a good one. Don't know many other working mums round here (DS is oldest of his group) so recommendations few and far between. Did think I wanted care that wouldn't be cancelled because CM sick, for example, and DH more comfortable with idea of staff all watching each other. But now I'm wondering.

Read the terms and conditions but managed to miss the bit about late pick-ups and BH closure. Just read 'em again and still can't see the BH bit, but if that's standard, fair enough.

Sticking to routine: Was assured when we registered that this would be no problem.

Constructive activities: His daily sheet today says "big gym, baby gym, mega blocks, zoo animals". I don't know if there are songs, stories, staff interacting with kids etc. What's a good non-accusing way of asking? I did have some qualms about this, but then he seemed happy, so stopped worrying. And today I picked him up and saw most of the kids at the gate watching me, while staff sat quietly and watched them. Might have been an observation session but I just don't know.

Suntan lotion: granted, £2 cheaper than buying a £10 bottle. OTOH I am paying nearly forty fecking quid a day and would have thought they could chuck that in... that was the last straw, really.

I need to sleep on it, and to check out the v good CM my friend told me about to see what I prefer. I don't want something petty to mess DS up, I'm just not that happy with the communications.

Oh, and it's baby cereal with sugar in (I know it's not poison, I just don't like added sugar in food) and Knorr stock.

And I've told various staff members several times now that DS has never had purees and is happy with lumps, but they keep asking if he has pureed food and telling me they pureed his lunch.

I am a nit-picker, aren't I?

I wouldn't say you're a nit picker... Its much easier for them not to puree food so seems a bit pointless if ds will eat lumps

Late picks ups, closing bank holidays and sun cream all sound reasonable to me and in terms of activites, I would assume that story time is an everyday occurrence and the other things are changed daily. i don't think a 9 month wants/needs too much organised activity though

The naps is a difficult one but its not like you're giving a very specific time so it shouldn't be a big problem

The food issue is different - I'm really quite relaxed about food but would still be about salt and sugar for a 9 month old

We always have a chat with one of the staff (DS's keyworker, if she's on duty, or someone else if not) about what DS has done that day, so it fleshes out the report sheet and they can tell us about what stories he particularly enjoyed, what activities he's done, etc. Do they just hand over the sheet without comment, then?

I don't think you're nit-picking over the food; it's not a difficult thing to remember.

I know how you feel about CMs - that is how I felt at the outset. I am a first time mom and did not really kno anybody in my area who I could ask for advice. Maybe I was just lucky, but I thought I would pass on my experience.

I chose my cm after visiting 5 different ones. I felt that she presented the ideal picture of what I wanted - somebody a bit mumsy (like me, I suppose), with a home that looked like a home - not a mini school. Somebody who believed in going to the park and jumping in puddles and did not spend all their time telling me about their hygiene arrangements. I also checked her ofsted registration, but that was not a key factor, just a confirmation that she had all the right registrations.

With regards to being off sick, my cm has 3 other cms she regularly spends time with, so that the dcs get used to them. They step in and offer emergency care for each other's mindees. It is not always perfect, but I am impressed that they think ahead.

I went to 3 nurseries as well, and although one of them really appealed, I was looking for flexibility and occasional overnight care, so cm was the best option for me.

It does not matter which option you choose - cm or nursery, you need to feel comfortable. The aim is for you not to worry about it at work, get your work done and then enjoy your time with your dc. And it may be that after a chat with your nursery you will feel more comfortable with things. Don't hesitate to do things like drop in early unannounced, or ask questions. They should be used to this, they understand mum's concerns.

WRT the naps, I don't think it's unreasonable of you to expect each child to be put down according to their needs - in fact I think (could be wrong) that it's in some government guidelines that nurseries should fit in with the child rather than other way around until 2...? Could be wrong about that, but it's what all the nurseries round our way seem to do.

HOWEVER, just to play devil's advocate, what you are asking them to do is not as simple as that; you are asking them to put him down at a particular time which may not fit in with his needs. It's hard enough for someone to keep a sleepy child awake and amused one-on-one, it's much more difficult in a nursery setting. When they mutter about resources, what they may mean is that they don't have the staff to keep a fractious and over-tired child awake and happy, so it's easier to put him down when he's asleep.

I trust DS's nursery to put DS down when he needs to sleep, but I also accept that that isn't always exactly when I would like it to be. I've told them that if he's very late with his lunchtime nap for whatever reason I'd prefer him to go without rather than nap after 5pm, but I do accept that if he's really overtired they may have to just go with the flow.

But if they are just ignoring his routine and putting all the babies down at 10.00 so they can have a fag break then I agree that's not acceptable.

Re: working out what other activities are being done, IMO there's no substitute for just turning up at odd hours and nosily looking to see what's going on. Also chat when you drop him off, ask about what they are planning for the day. Ask again when you pick him up and see if you get the same account. Do they produce any artwork you can see? At DS's nursery even the tinies get to do finger painting and sticking, and you get the resulting messes masterpieces to take home.

I would personally stick with it a bit longer because a good relationship with a nursery isn't only about what they do, it's also about you telling them what you need and like and giving them the chance to respond, but listening to their side if for some reason they can't do as you ask. If they aren't willing/able to develop that relationship with you THEN time to move on, I think.

Sorry - this post seems to have turned into an essay!

having worked in a private nursery and being a mum myself i see what your saying and to a point i agree especially with the food - at my nursery the bbies did have a structured sleep time because of nursery routine and meltimes and such the staff ratio isnt 1-1 as it is at home and for a baby to sleep a staff member needs to be with him sme with meals thats not to say there is no flexibility in the early days or if the baby is under par,i suspect your lo is getting lots of jingles and sensory experience as well as building and other activities a unentertained child is a miserable child.

the suncream is i think a really good idea so many times parents didnt provide cream and s a result we couldnt tae the child outside not even using another childs cream or spare cream becuse the parent hdnt given us permission so i ssume tht in giving the £2 your allowing suncream to be applied s neccesary.

with a nursery you have to trust your instinct turn up at odd times of the day see what theyre doing with your lo its very easy to become suspicious and worry but the mjority of these staff will be highly trained caring professionals and please remember your £38 a dy isnt going into the pocket of the nursery nurse they are often quite lowpaid for what is a very demanding job