Childminder disagreement

[Smil95]

My son has recently turned two and has never been a big sleeper, always dropped his naps earlier than his peers. We have been working with a sleep consultant ever since he was 4 months old as the poor sleep has had a huge impact on our life as a family.
He has been on one nap a day ever since he was one year old and it has worked really great for him. This is when he started going to a childminder. For the last 6 weeks he has started refusing night time sleep till after 10 pm and waking up for 2 hours in the night, every night. It has been horrendous, as for weeks we have had to once again function on very poor sleep. It has started impacting our relationship and our jobs.
We mentioned to the childminder that it might be time to drop or reduce his nap as this is not sustainable for us. She said she won't do this and no nursery will do this either.
I would totally pay for a nanny if I could afford it but, unfortunately I can't and the CM is great otherwise.
The sleep coach also confirmed he needs to reduce / remove his napping.
Please if anyone has any tips, how to approach this. Or any sleep tips on the matter, that would be great. Thank you all!

When I was a childminder the children napped if needed if not we did quiet activities

A sleep consultant for a four month old baby. Now I have heard everything.

I think you need to give a little more info here. Is the childminder forcing naps or saying she won’t actively stop him from sleeping if he is falling asleep whilst there. I will cut a nap short at parents request but if a child is falling asleep and I’m being asked to drop the sleep entirely and having to force them to stay awake it’s a different matter . I won’t put a child down for a nap if they don’t need it though, I won’t force sleep on a child. We may have quiet time after lunch to recharge a little as some do when they’re ready to drop naps but tiredness is still an issue.

SAHM, so never considered this. I'm surprised and would be really frustrated by your situation.

My eldest stopped napping at 18 months, youngest at 20 months. Even a 20 minute nap would ensure I'd not be able to get them to sleep before 10pm. So that's three hours of sleep they'd miss out on for the sake of a 20 minute nap. They'd be miserable and tired the next day, so it clearly left them more tired. The extra 3 hours nighttime sleep was obviously way more beneficial to them than a 20 minute nap.

Thank you all for your replies! Just to clarify, I am not asking the childminder to keep him awake when he is exhausted and drifting whilst standing up (he never does this anyway). He skips his naps when he's with us (if he's slept through the night). I just strongly believe she offers him a nap when he doesn't need one, and it's a vicious circle as, obviously when he gets 7.5 to 8 hr sleep in the night, he would have a nap in the day to catch up. But he is definitely not happy this way.

How long of a nap is he having with the childminder and what time? Could you try and compromise and limit to one hour and waking up no later than 2.30?

Looking form the CM's perspective though, how is your son in the afternoon without a nap? If he is hellish then I can see why she's reluctant, she's presumably got several children to manage and if he's crying, tantruming etc it's not viable.

Love the horror that the childminder might get a break in a long work day!

Putting her (understandable) desire for a break ahead of the child's best interests is shit though. No toddler is in good form when they have overnight sleep. And a childminder should know enough to know that this is a somewhat inevitable phase and dragging it out helps no one.

Have you asked how tired he is and how he copes through the day. It’s common for a child to become more tired in childcare because they’re generally doing more, playing more especially around with other children. Children are sometimes a lot more active with a childminder which obviously impacts their energy levels. It’s worth having a chat and finding out why the childminder is hesitant to drop the nap.

He is usually very happy when he skips his nap, still ok to carry on until normal bed time. Currently she is saying he naps 1:30 to 2 hours a day, and goes down very well, but I honestly think it's because he is in a routine and all his peers are sleeping, even older ones. I totally understand she needs a break but she also has an assistant so surely they can accommodate. It's just all hell breaks loose in the night , he is fully awake for two hours straight between 2:30 and 4:30am, despite not being able to settle till 10:30 pm. Oh and he also wakes up at 7 by himself, wide awake.
But what we'll try is to maybe get something in writing by the coach and see how we can compromise. We just cant handle being this tired all the time, so something has do be done.

I'd see if she'll consider capping his nap as a first step, I think. He may still need a nap at the childminders, or need a nap some days but not every day, and capping the nap might be a way to accommodate this without ruining the nights.

Our nursery will cap naps if it's in the best interest of the child looking at their sleep as a whole, which this clearly is. They won't do a very short 'catnap', as that doesn't fit with most children's sleep cycles – I think about 30-40 minutes is the shortest they'll usually go – but you could try capping at an hour, then if that doesn't work, 30-40 minutes. If that still doesn't work, you've got a strong case that he really is ready for no nap.

Telll her to wake him after an hour . It is actually a start it cuts out 30 minutes to an hour .

Then he can manage longer .

I would say I have a Ds who is. Ow screen has ADHD drops his naps at nursery at 15 months not that much longer at home ..

however as a minder I find the children often napped here longer than at home - there is a element of routine but also they are more tired here it’s a different kind of stimulation at home .

The comments about breaks .. it really isn’t a thing in childminding . You are constantly available , checking sleeping little one’s , cleaning setting up for afternoon activities ,and tea prep .

eating a drinking if I had none that needed feeding bi ate with them

It also depends on how long his day is with the childminder. It is easy to stop naps for children doing a standard 9-3 but cutting it for those 7-6 can be difficult as the long day does exhaust them. The stimulation of childcare for them is like the day at work for us - lots of interaction with others, routines to follow, new experiences to process. At home the day can be much more relaxed for them so they dont need a nap.

We would definitely discuss stopping naps with a parent but we wouldn't keep an exhausted child from sleeping. We've stopped naps at parent request before then been left with children who get very tearful or hyperactive and angry from tiredness or simply just fall asleep around 4/5pm which is danger nap time. Often the parents would rather an hour at 1pm than danger naps at 5pm.

Broken nights when you have work are a nightmare but I think 2 is a common age for restless nights. I remember my good sleepers having a patch around that age of waking in the night.

As a former childminder I would say your childminder is wrong. It can be very difficult to keep one child quiet enough for the others to nap but you encourage quiet stories, duplo, tv, helping with jobs like cleaning up after lunch, sweeping, tidying toys etc (had a 2 year old who loved to dust skirting boards and in between the uprights on the banister while his friends slept, he even asked to choose his own colourful duster!), iPad games etc.

It is hard when youbare a minder and you are 'on' from early morning to early evening but that is the nature of the job unfortunately.

Childminder sounds a pain. She obviously wants a break and sleeping children are easy to manage. I would change to a nursery. Child will probably get more stimulation.

My eldest stopped napping just after 2 and was at nursery. They kids in his room of 18 months old-3 year olds mostly napped, they used to take him up to the pre school to play with them whilst the younger ones napped. There was a hard transition period though where we just had to put up with the really late nightmare bedtimes as he was exhausted during the day and obviously we couldn't expect them to keep him awake, neither could we always during his days with us.

I think a bigger nursery could manage this quite easily.

I think the no napping is more common than you think we have 3 now toddlers but all 3 had stopped naps from 5months, our twins if they nap in the car occasionally they will not sleep well at all at night. Once we figured cut the day naps out yay we got sleep..they go from 6pm ish to 8 every night and that's just fine for them and us. If they were grouchy or whingey during the day then fair enough there tired but none of them are. Our nursery was made aware of this as they all started at the same time and they've kept to the no naps also

I think most nurseries would help with reduced naps. I know ours would. It's about the child's development. But perhaps he has to fit in with other children's routines? Might be worth exploring with other options to see what they do?

No naps from five months?! That’s madness. I’d doubt the credibility of any childcare professional that supported that. I’d say that’s likely going to be pretty detrimental to their happiness and development when they’re a year or less!

DS1 had a nap for quite a long time (until 4) and nursery were supportive of waking him after a set time (eg no more than 1.5 hours or awake by 3). DS2 dropped his nap quite early and nursery were happy to not suggest a nap but to let him have one if he was tired (this was just before he turned 2). Now at 2.5 he goes to a preschool setting and they don’t have nap time and so he doesn’t nap. I think most childcare settings will work with you, perhaps she didn’t understand what you were asking?

This is what my eldest DD was like, just didn't need a nap from age 2.
Nursery did work with us on it though so your CM is being unreasonable. I would be looking for a new CM tbh

I would keep the nap and I would make our evenings really really busy eg soft play or a bike ride or park so there was no way on earth he wouldn’t go to sleep. It’s better for him to keep the nap I would think. I can see why it’s so awful for you though.. if you really think he can manage without the nap (your own issues aside) then find a new CM. But I personally would think it’s better for him to keep the nap AND go to bed at a reasonable time. I’d aim for the ideal rather than try and make him power through the day.

She didn't say a two hour nap did she?

So you already don't trust your childminder? That's not a good start why do you think she's lying?