Hourly top up fees are they legal?!

[NurseryKnightmare]

So I was just wondering is it legal for nurseries to charge hourly top up fees for your funded hours. My nursery is putting up our hourly "consumable" charge from £2 per hour of gov funded hours to £3.28. And increasing unfunded day rates from £72 to £86. We live in Cheshire so not a cheap part of the North but I don't earn alot and looking into it consumables should be more like £5 a day rather than a top up per hour. :/ Where do we stand, my fees are becoming unaffordable. Thankyou xx

They're legal and necessary as government funding doesn't cover nurseries' running costs.

It's also shit for both parents and nurseries, and I encourage you to contact your MP about it.

Sorry @RiaOverTheRainbow didn't see your reply, I realise the government funding doesn't cover the nurseries running cost and I have already been paying a top up but a nearly 20% increase in unfunded hour rates and 38% increase in funded hour rates I feel is more than slightly taking the piss. Especially when looking at the profit my nursery is making on companies house.

The minimum wage has gone up. All bills have gone up. This is why nurseries are closing. Please contact your MP.

Top ups are absolutely not allowed.
But...it costs an average of £5 per hour for nurseries to look after children. If it wasn't for nurseries charging top up fees something like 90% of nurseries would make a loss on funded places. Either the authorities ignore top ups or the entire 'funded places' scheme collapses.

You don’t stand anywhere, they can charge the fees they are charging and they can put it up to what they like.

Yes, legal and normal

I'm waiting for our nurseries new fees for this year.
Is yours doing the new 15 hours funding for 2 year olds?
I don't know if that new funding will push the price up for non funded hour's and days.
I pay £30.10 a day with 30 funded hour's stretched over the year so around 20 hours a week for 3 days a week. Nursery is open 8am-6pm.

It's not a top up if it's for the consumables. Ours charges it per half day but it's nearly £15 so not far off yours. It covers food and wipes, craft materials, sunscreen etc not sure what else they can do to keep going

I think it would be clearer if the government called it a nursery contribution. Doesn't sound as catchy as free hours but it is more accurate.

A single Pamper nappy is 15p, 2 per session.
Wipes are 1p each, maybe 6p per session.
Food maybe £2, some nurseries far less.
Craft stuff from wholesalers maybe 20p.
All of that for easily less than £3 per session but charge £15? Of course it's a top up when it's massively inflated like that but it's the only way to survive.

@Mysterian depends on the nursery. Ours has a chef on-site who cooks organic meals and my LO eats better than I do lol last week they had basa fillets for lunch while I had a sandwhich lol they do crafts most days and cookery several times a week with fresh fruit 🤷🏻‍♀️ I'm aware it's inflated to help with lack of funding but it still feels good value to me

I work in early years. It is illegal to charge a top up. But if you call it a consumable charge you get away with it.

Early years education is undervalued and under paid. If the extra fees were passed to the workers so they earn reasonable money for the work they do I would feel it's fair but in reality the extra money is going into the management and owner's pockets.

Funding is also about to be increased. I wonder if your nursery will then reduce the consumables fee in line with the extra funding they receive or if they will just add it to the profit

It doesn't have to be like this but without it there would be no profit for the owner.

My child is in a community eatablished not for profit preschool (rated outstanding). She only does her 30 free hours and there is no top up. So term time only 9-3 x 4 days and 1 day 9-1. I understand that wouldn't work for everyone but i am in an expensive part of the country and her previous nursery (8.30 -5) was over £1500 a month for 4 days. We have both flexed our working hours and i do a lot early in the morning / once she is in bed and tv is my friend for an hour between 4 and 5. Its worth it for us as we are saving £12,000 even taking into account packed lunches and the vol top up. School holidays are tricky but i have older children off school anyhow

There is a voluntary contribtion of £50 a term to cover consumables. She takes a packed lucnch.

what about the legislative wage rises? They are due to rise between 9.8 and 22%

Who will pay for these if the funding/fees don’t go up?

speaking of increase in government funding, do you realise how little they are going up?

let me assure you, nursery managers/owners are absolutely not rolling in money, not even close.

They are allowed to charge for consumables but if you are unable or do no wish to pay for them, they must provide you with an alternative option (such as allowing you to bring in your own).

Hi. I’m in a similar position in a Cheshire Nursery too. I have researched it and contacted council and there is nothing we can do I am afraid. Well there is …. Leave and that’s what I will do when I find another place. I have researched other nurseries in the area and mine is by far the highest normal daily fee (£72 per day) and highest “consumable fee” at £22 per day on a fully funded 10 hour day and £14 for 5 hours funded half day!!! I have just had a bill for two weeks in April (he is term time only) so a total of 30 funded hours or 3 days funded) and my top up fees are £72 which equates to a normal full day. It’s madness. They quoted nappy cream and sun cream as a consumable but I provide these 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I feel your pain but might be worth looking around there are other options but obviously it depends where you are.

I do understand that nurseries need to charge a consumable fee to survive but this should be standardised to a certain extent. How can one nursery in an area charge £1 per hour and one £2.16??? Also why is it more for consumable son a half day ???? Madness!

As PP has said top up fees are not allowed and are not legal.

I had to remove my son from a nursery because of one bat shit owner, after my son qualified for his funded hours my monthly bill went up due to the insane amount of consumable charges - none of which we was getting anyway (weekly dance, French lessons and day trips was what was quoted for the price Increase, but none of this was being provided!!)

We found a better nursery who’s overall fees where much higher, but worked out cheeper as they properly applied the funded hours. And they actually provided things like French and weekly trips out to the park etc!

I would look at other nurseries, that have a better fee model.

My two year old is eligible for 15 hours free childcare from 1st april. However, his nursery are going to be charging a daily contribution of £12 a day. I am not sure they are allowed to do this as their usual hourly charge is £7.33 per hour (which includes all consumables, food etc) and i looked up the government funding for our area and they will be getting £7.95 per hour for two year olds. That’s 62p more per hour they will be getting so why are they charging a ‘daily contribution’ ? If the government funding was less than their usual rate i would understand the need to add a fee to cover the shortfall, but the funding is higher. Is there something i am missing here?

The local authority is responsible for ensuring invoicing for funded places is transparent and within the law. You have a right to complain to the local authority if they have not done this in your case, and you can pursue this to the local government ombudsman, which has published several decisions in recent years regarding nursery funding.

Our local pre school shut down as they didn’t charge top up fees and ran out of money, would much rather pay top up fees and get good quality childcare than no childcare at all. You can still get the 20% TFC off the top up fees too

I had a similar argument with my nursery after discovering what they get paid by LA but they just said that only covers the care element. Sadly I think they are allowed to do it because the government won’t regulate nurseries.

I have no objection to paying a top up fee for consumables but it’s the amount I’m being asked to pay and the fact that it’s so different in each nursery. It needs to be regulated.

It is regulated - the local authority is required by law to oversee these charges are clear and transparent and that it is possible to access the entitlement to funded hours without having to pay these extra charges. I’m not saying that means nurseries are funded correctly, but it is the law.

https://www.lgo.org.uk/information-centre/news/2022/nov/notts-mum-should-be-refunded-nursery-charges-following-ombudsman-investigation